Perimenopause: Lorraine Keane's Honest Journey

Today's conversation is as real as it gets as Lorraine shares her honest experience of perimenopause and the ups and downs it has brought into her life.

You can learn more about Lorraine HERE

Transcript -Automatically Generated

Welcome to menopause uprising with me, your host, Catherine O'Keeffe. I'm thrilled today to be joined by Lorraine Keane, who's a broadcaster and also a huge menopause advocate and has been for several years in Ireland, paving the way and indeed opening the conversation around perimenopause with menopause.

When very few people were talking about it, we're talking today about where Lorraine is on our current perimenopause journey, the daily habits that she has in place that are really supporting her and we're delving into a symptom that we're all Too familiar with, and that is the psychological symptoms of menopause, particularly talking about anxiety and the practical steps that we can take to support ourselves.

I hope you enjoyed the episode and do check out the show notes and also please do remember to rate, review and comment on whatever platform you're watching. Thank you. Lorraine,

the Menopause Success Summit, the last one that we had here in Dublin. It really, I have to say it brought such a warmth and I guess I felt humbled listening to so many women who came up to me after you were on stage and you shared your story. And I think what we often forget about is the power of sharing what's happening for us.

And you know what, what it can all look like maybe out in the media or in social media or anything like that can be very different to when you can stand up and say, there and share in, you know, a room of over 200 women so honestly, your own story, I think gives huge support to so many other women. So thank you for that.

Oh, it's been the, the, the, for me, the best thing I've ever done to be perfectly honest, Catherine. And it was one of the most daunting things I've ever done. initially. Yeah, I think it is, isn't it? I remember when I did my TEDx and I was talking about some of the things that happened, me and my perimenopause.

You're like, God, do I really, do I really want to put that out there? Especially back then, Catherine, because nobody was talking about it. It was such a taboo subject. You know, and in, in my industry, in all industries, you know, um, there's a lot of ageism when it comes to women. So I was also concerned about that, particularly in the industry that I work in.

But, um, I just knew how I had suffered for so long in silence. And I always say I'm a woman who supports other women and, um, my girlfriends and my sisters, all the women in my life are so important. And I just thought, you know what, you're always. talking the talk, it's time to walk the walk. So just to say it and share it.

And I think you're one of the first women to come out and talk so openly. Back how many years ago? 10. If you think 10 years ago, 2014. Just like you. Well, I think you were further ahead than I was at that stage. I just started perimenopause, nobody. There was very few voices talking about it at that stage.

I didn't even know what it was. And I'm a journalist. So I would see, you know, anything to do with menopause, peri or otherwise, uh, online and magazines. Uh, newspapers, and I just flicked through because I honestly didn't think that it was anything I had to concern myself with for a long time, and I was only in my late thirties then, and that was another reason I thought I needed to come out and talk about it because I was so annoyed with myself for being ignorant, um, because knowledge is key, you know, and I just thought, okay, if I'm not educated in this space, then there's probably a lot of women in the same position as I am, and there were.

And it's not that for a minute you were ignorant. It's the fact that we didn't have education or awareness. Like perimenopause wasn't being talked about back then at all. Sure it wasn't. Well, women's health generally in Ireland hasn't been supported. Yeah, yeah. Forever, you know. Yeah, for a long, yeah.

Totally. Um, and I think like, that's like perimenopause now. It's kind of everyone knows the word and it's kind of like, you know, it's normal parts, kitchen table conversations, isn't it? It's not a dirty little secret anymore. And that's what I love, you know, because, you know, it's like my teenagers, you know, My young girls, um, with regards to periods.

That's another thing that, you know, we're discussing more now because for such a long time, women through all the different stages of our hormonal journey have been made to feel shamed and embarrassed. You know, so hide it, don't talk about it. Um, and that's just, I'm sorry, like that's not acceptable. Yeah, I think the, the, I'm not sorry, actually, I'm going to take the sorry back.

It's just not acceptable. No, you're right, it isn't. Like, I mean, look at if we look at it, um, like all of the clinical research and anything that's ever been done, like women's health has only become kind of more to the forefront in the last number of years. Because we're demanding it. Yeah, exactly. And, and I think like, you know, that really, like, it's a great change to see happening and we just need more of it.

And I think, you know, menstruation is a big part of that conversation now because like, I know we, we do like, um, you know, there's the busy bees in primary school. Um, For education around that, but it needs more because one thing I would find is that, you know, even our forties and fifties, we still maybe aren't.

don't fully understand what the menstrual cycle actually looks like. And that actually, I think then when you come into perimenopause and you're, you're kind of not sure what you're looking for. You keep thinking, Oh, well, my periods just have to stop. Yes. Whereas in actual fact, there's so many subtleties that happened before that.

Right. Yes. And no, to menopause experiences will be the same. Yes. Look at the two of us. Yeah. Yeah. They'll be completely different. And like, if we think about it, um, you're in perimenopause probably longer than me. And if you look at that, do you think, do you think you're getting closer to menopause itself now or.

Well, gosh, I thought I was. I thought I was, um, up until recently, because my periods had, you know, stopped for a couple of months. And I thought, this is it. Thank God, get into this bloody menopause and get out the other side. Um, and then lo and behold, they came back and came back regularly. And, um, and more severe and for longer periods as well.

So, um, yeah, it's just, it's just a bit shit really being a girl of all ages. So, um, so who knows, you know, the only thing that gets me through it, Catherine, is the fact that I know it will pass and I know symptoms change and I know what I need to do to help myself to, to, you know, cope as best I can. And, um, and I'm good at that too.

The lifestyle changes. that are key to everything because you can take anything you want, but if you don't have the exercise, the wellbeing, so minding yourself and switching off the nutrition, so your food and your supplements, if you don't take that time and those things, then Nothing's going to work.

And I've seen myself over the last 10 years that when I sometimes slip up on that, that's when my symptoms get worse or I get new symptoms. And then I realize, I go, okay, Lorraine, what is it now? And I go, okay, well, maybe you're burning the candle at both ends, or maybe you're not taking time for yourself, or maybe you haven't exercised, you know, done nice kind of walks with the dogs or, or I've been, you know, Maybe eating the wrong foods or, you know, in my youth and certainly when I was working full time in my twenties and thirties, I'd have a wrap on my lap in the car, you know, in between jobs, and maybe I'd have started doing that again and not kind of taking time to eat.

Um, and well, one thing I don't miss is my supplements. My menomine is there every morning, my two little capsules. So that's one thing that I wouldn't forget to take. And in fact, I was heading off to, to see my daughter in Chicago recently and, um, had realized that I'd left them beside the kettle. down in the kitchen.

So I had to stop, got the taxi to pull in to a pharmacy in Sandymount. And thanks be to God, they sold Meniman. So I must put that up on my Instagram actually, because the panic. That's a good one. Yeah, because I do feel, it just, you know, makes me feel better. Um, and I miss it when I don't take it. So yeah, so I suppose, um, the whole thing is, is being educated, isn't it?

Yeah. And knowing, knowing more about symptoms and All your options because, you know, HRT can be really good for some people. There's 20%, uh, I believe that will need HRT because their symptoms are, you know, so debilitating where they can, you know, can't go to work or can hardly get outta the bed. Um, then 20% seemingly are lucky ducks and they hardly have any symptoms at all.

They sail through it and then there's 60% of us in the middle. And, um, and. you know, we're the ones that need to, to kind of watch symptoms and see what it is we need at certain times, because as I say, it will change and the symptoms change too. And I think that's a really pertinent point there about HRT.

I just actually did a reel on this yesterday, and I was basically showing like a traffic light system. Yeah. So how do you know? Like, do you, should every woman be on HRT? And it's basically looking at, you know, are your symptoms mild, moderate and severe or severe? So like you said, if they're mild, then it's more, well, let's look at my lifestyle.

Maybe, like you said, maybe I'm eating too many wraps or what have I slipped up on? Or, you know, how are things changing? But and that really, to me, is very much lifestyle and looking at what you need to tweak. But if you look then and you're moving towards the more moderate to severe, then it becomes. It's a different conversation, but an important part of that conversation is the uniqueness because not every not every woman will do well on HRT.

They might, um, they might struggle with the different forms. It takes a while to get it right, to find what works for you. And I think one of the biggest things that we see out there is, um, you know, this it's an instant fix. It isn't an instant fix. It takes time to get it right. You know, and then, of course, you know, It's looking at, there are situations where HRT is contraindicated.

So I think it's very much always remembering the individual nature and the end goal is not that every woman is on HRT. It's very much looking at the individual picture that's there, which is key. And nothing will work unless you're going to adjust and change your lifestyle and bad habits, you know, and eat the right foods.

And unfortunately, a lot of the time, no matter how healthy we are, by the time the food gets reaches our plate and some of the nutrients are gone. So make sure that you have all of those really important things in your diet. And that's why supplements are just so handy, because we need to make sure that we have omega 3 in our diets.

We need to make sure we've vitamin D in our diets. You know, there's certain things that we need to have for our current and future. You know, bone and heart and cognitive health. And that's really important. And then, of course, Omega 3, like I don't know about you, but so many women I talk to are just like, I can't eat fish.

I don't like fish. You know, so if you're not getting Omega 3 through your diet, it's really important to make sure that you're trying, that you're adding it in, you know, because I think, like you said, it's probably one of the most important nutrients, I think, at this stage, but at any stage. Um, but if you're not a fish eater, you're kind of, you're, you're stuck, you know, and you know, fish is definitely, nuts and seeds will help as well, but the fish is the, the key part.

Yes, I know our B vitamins as well, you know, there's, there's so many things that we need. Um, to help us balance our hormones, to give us more energy, to help us sleep better, you know, so it's just being aware of that. And when you just mentioned sleep there, because it's a big one, right? Yes, I got none last night, by the way, so a bit slow today.

You're brightening me up though. Yeah, yeah, you're doing great. If we look at sleep, I think for me, it's, I put all my focus into sleep. I just have to. because I'm a bear. My husband will attest to that if I don't sleep. Um, so like I do, I put everything into that, like from, you know, from my nighttime routine to, you know, taking my magnesium to just getting myself primed for good night's sleep.

Yeah. But say like for you for, okay, last night, that's a blip, but you're saying like, I was doing so well. Yeah. Yeah. Um, because like you, I, I need my sleep because we're running around like mad jokes during the day, juggling way too much. Um, so yeah, I was doing so, so well for months. And then, yeah, just last night just had one of those nights where I was just lying awake.

You know, tossing and turning. Um, I have found that magnesium at night really helps. Um, and actually bone factors is a great supplement because it has the magnesium in it. And then it means you're also looking after the bones. We'll get to that. I'm sure it's on stage during our chat because it's so important at this stage of our lives to keep an eye on our, our bone health.

Um, so yeah, so, but the thing that gets me through it, um, because there are days like this morning where I thought, I don't even want to get out of the bed. You know, we're just like, really, do I have to face this? And then I, know that it will pass. Do you know what I mean? So in those situations, I just try and focus on, um, on doing nice things for myself, like doing nice jobs, like this is lovely to come in here and be able to chat with you.

So that was a reason to get out of the bed. Um, and then once you're up and out and you've got the face on, um, you just feel better anyway. So it's just kind of. you know, saying to yourself, it will be okay, you know, so between that and then kind of, um, yeah, just, just sharing the experience with other women.

Like I'm going to meet a friend of mine for lunch after we have our chat here and, uh, and Connor Faulkner is a friend of mine for years and he's just Mr. Positivity. So we'll just have such a laugh catching up. Um, so doing stuff like that, you know, just being very conscious of the fact that you just need to mind yourself on those kind of blip days and everybody has them.

And people look at my Instagram and we all look at other people's Instagram and it all looks fabulous. Um, and I, I do keep it real. I tried to keep it real, but I'm also really aware of not being whingy moany pissy pants, you know what I mean? On Instagram where people are like, geez, I'm not tuning into her anymore.

I felt bad and I feel worse. So I do try and be positive on Instagram, but, um, but there are days that, yeah, I just feel like shit and you just have to, you know, smile. Yes. And I think, Lorraine, that's really powerful for so many people listening to actually understand they're not alone. Because like we all have days where we wake up and we love to turn back into bed and go back to sleep and just stay away from the world for a day.

Uh huh. But I think it's like you say, you just kind of getting up, actually getting vertical. Yeah. Is, is a step. And I talk to myself. I'm like, come on Lorraine, you can do this. You can do this. Let's say if anybody heard me, they'd be like, you're one of the last. Do you talk a lot? Out loud to yourself. Yeah.

I know. Yeah. Um, and usually the dogs are the ones looking at me with their heads kind of caught going, what the hell is she on, on now? But anyway, so, um, but yeah, it does. It's kind of, it's, it's, you know, you have to. be self motivating, you know, you can't give in to it. You have to just know, listen, as you said, I'm not alone.

Yeah, yeah, 100%. Do you find now at this stage, do you find kind of the, the vast myriad of psychological symptoms of menopause, you know, from the moods to the anxiety, I've just mentioned the sleep. Do you find that different to how it was in the earlier days or would, yeah, would you say it looks different?

I Wouldn't have had, I would have had anxiety certainly when I didn't realize that I was in perimenopause and then I found out I was in perimenopause and that helped. It helped just to know that there was a something, a reason to, yeah, to cause, to blame it on. Um, so then I started looking after myself more and with all of the information, um, that I've learned, you know, from, um, from just being out.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of in that area and talking to other women and listening to their stories and, and the amount of work that you've done working with you, Catherine and Dr. Mary Ryan and Trina Casey, the menopause nurse, and all of these wonderful people that I've had the pleasure of interviewing on my own podcast as well.

Um, you know, that's definitely. You know, I feel that that, that really for me is, is key. It's talking and sharing and supporting. Um, but the anxiety thing came back kind of recently, and I don't know, was that also, kind of after lockdown and all of that because I don't think that helped any of us to be fair.

And there were times when I loved it. And you have to be, be very careful, um, saying that too, because there were a lot of people that, you know, went through a really tough time and lost people and, um, and we also lost people. And, um, I think coming out of that, um, Yeah, it just all felt a bit lonely. And then when I had to get back on stage and I had to get back out there and put myself out there again, I got nervous again, you know, for the first time in a long time.

So, um, so, you know, I just I started doing breathing exercises again, just did my research. And, um, and I found that really helped. And. I started throwing myself into the freezing cold Irish sea. I don't know what the hell I was doing that for, but it worked. Um, so that's, that's been insane because that is not me.

Like, I'm a cold creature and I do the breaststroke and I hear Jaws music in my head every time I get into the ocean, no matter where it is. I saw a great TikTok video recently, this guy who's down in the West and he goes swimming most days and he said, he said, no, there is no, no benefits to this cold water swim.

And he said, but he said, what it is, he said, I go around the rest of my day and I think everything else in his day is fabulous because nothing was as worse. as the cold water swimming that he did at 6 a. m. That is brilliant. And I kind of thought, well, that makes sense. It's still lifting his spirits. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, that is great. Yeah. The mental health benefits are incredible. Yeah. Yeah. Um, it surely does clear your head. So, um, so yeah, whatever, whatever turns you on, do it. You know, mind yourself. Yeah. And I think, um, cause I think the anxiety, like that was for me in the early perimenopause years. That was what I was like, what?

Is this about like, I was like, I never had anxiety like that before. And I've kind of found just like you, I guess you get your kind of, you have your own tool kit and you know, kind of what will support you, particularly the breath. I find meditation as well is a great one. And just moving, just getting out.

But I'm very attuned now to the minute I start to feel If I'm starting to feel a little bit anxious or I think I'm worrying about something that maybe I can't control, I, I do try and go into it as in I just try and put a spotlight on it. So then I can just either, okay, you know, the brain is fooling me.

Do you know what I mean, that you're kind of, you, you take the, the fear out of it, I guess. Um, cause I know how, um, big anxiety is for so many people. Yeah. And, and when I didn't know that I was in perimenopause in my late thirties and I had it, um, and I know there's a lot of women that, you know, have felt the same from listening to the stories over the last 10 years.

You actually feel like you're going a bit mad. Yeah. Yeah, totally. And especially in my job, I need to be confident and, um, and be able to speak and whatever. So yeah, it was just, it was such a relief. to realize that it was something that I could manage. Yeah. You know, you can't get rid of it, but you can certainly with knowledge and education, you know, be armed, um, and armed and dangerous.

As I always say, I have all the information now. It's like, bring it on, bring it on menopause. But I, I like, and I, where I'd see that now, Lorraine, is if I, if I'm in a workplace and I talk through the symptom checker, so many, People will come back and, you know, they'll email or whatever. And they'll just say the relief from looking at the symptom checker and actually realizing, like you just said, I'm not going mad.

X, Y or Z. These are actual symptoms. God. And it's it's a real weight off your shoulders, isn't it? Because you kind of you just realize, OK, you're not alone here. And I think the amount of women who do feel alone. And I do remember the early perimenopause years. I definitely. Felt very alone because I know at the time, a lot of my friends were like, No, no, we're too young.

We're that's not going to happen to our fifties. Yeah. And of course, now they're all like, Yeah, you know, beating on your door. Tell me what to do. Yeah, because we've between us and all of the other wonderful women out there that have been been, you know, hosting events and talking the talk when it comes to our hormone health.

And between us, you know, we've we've gotten rid of the the taboo. Yeah. You know, now it's it's like the I think like most strangers that would come up and talk to me because it would have happened my whole life. But most of them nowadays is to talk about perimenopausal metaphors. Yeah. Is that great? I'm leaving up my friends.

I was hosting my friend's fashion show on Friday night and um, three women afterwards came up and just said, I just want to say thank you so much for coming out and talking about perimenopause and menopause has been a big help. And at an event I did in the mansion house a few weeks previously, two men came up to me afterwards to say that their wives asked them to come up to say thank you.

But then they also said thank you. Oh, that's brilliant, isn't it? That's change. Like, that's real change. Yeah. You know, so I think that's where you kind of sometimes you kind of have to stop and smell the flowers, don't you? And realize that even if you touch one life, that is, you know, you're helping. Yeah, you know.

Yeah. So I know we mentioned earlier about bone health, and I know we've been on like I did a DEXA scan, was it? It was last year. And then since then, I think similar to yourself, I am now a very diligent gym goer. So tell us about your journey. Well, um, I actually, uh, filmed my DEXA scan, it's on my Instagram for the reason being that a lot of women I found were afraid to get a DEXA scan because they thought it was going to be very intrusive as most things with us women.

Um, and it's absolutely not, you know, on the contrary, it's, um, you're in 10, 15 minutes and, uh, you don't even get enclosed in a capsule like you would with an MRI or anything like that. Um, so it's really, really easy and pleasant experience. And, um, the reason I got one done was because I have a low thyroid.

And so I'm on thyroid medication and I was walking the dogs one day, went over my ankle on a dodgy path in my runners and fractured my ankle. So there was concerns that maybe I had osteoporosis. So um, got my GP to, to send me for a DEXA and went to DEXA Blackrock and went through the whole process, brought the camera with me and found out that thankfully, um, I was My bone health is where it should be at my age.

So that was a huge relief. And now I also have a baseline, Catherine. So it means I have something to compare with as I, as I get older. So everybody, every woman should have a DEXA scan after the age of 50 because we all want to live a long and strong life. I'm hoping 50 years, you know. So, uh, so I think it That's really, really important.

Um, and then to make sure that you're exercising, as you mentioned there, that you're doing the right type of exercise for your bone health. So that would be lifting weights. Um, and they don't have to be heavyweights. I don't want to build muscle. I just want to, um, as much as I love Madonna's arms. I don't want them.

Sorry, Madonna. Um, but I need to know that, uh, that my muscle mass and my bone density You know, at the best they can be for the age that I am going forward. So that's really important. And then obviously eating the right foods and getting the right nutrients and vitamins like your calcium and your vitamin D and and you can get that in supplements as well.

So make sure that you're ticking all those boxes. And that's what I do. So just to be very like you said, to be very aware of our bone health. for our future health is really, really important. And it's, you know, you can prevent it by doing the right types of exercise, by taking your menomine and also get your DEXA scan now.

So at least firstly, you'll find out how your bone health is, but also for for future reference. And do you take, what do you, do you take anything to kind of protect your bones as well? Well, I was always taking magnesium at night for sleep and then changed in the last couple of months to bone factors, which is a supplement that has the magnesium in it, but it also has all the other ingredients that I need.

So it's perfect. So now I take two of them at night and then take my two minimum in the morning. And then I know that I'm doing the best that I can. I have my mom on it. I've got my sisters on it. I've got, listen, I've got as many people as I can, because, you know, I would have been one of those kind of skeptical people before.

And I would have thought that the whole, you know, nutrition thing was a bit faffy and, and, and so. Was that when you were eating the wraps? Yeah, on my lap. Yeah. I'm wondering why I was losing my mind. Seriously, it all makes sense now. But, um, but yeah. So. I, yeah, I've done all the research. I've worked in this space for 10 years, um, and it's a no brainer.

And we need to just, you know, take that little bit of time. Um, and yeah, just looking after ourselves. I think the food part of it is so important, isn't it? Like, I mean, I've always, I was a fussy eater. I'd say I was a nightmare for my parents when I was younger. But when I got older, um, when I moved to London, I, Developed a huge appreciation for food, but now it's really gone up a notch.

I say in the last 10 years, because like you said, I, I can tell if I'm not eating properly, or if I'm eating a few more bits of chocolate or crisps or something, yeah, I'll, I'll immediately feel it, you know, not, you know, immediately you feel it and then you maybe feel a kind of slump after, but you feel it in terms of, you know, Your sleep is impacted or, um, that's where I would definitely feel it if I have too much, um, sugar, like I just know what impacts my, my sleep, you know, so it's just kind of, I think, being aware of food and particularly I think when it comes to, um, our bone health, it's a huge part of it, isn't it?

Um, and it's kind of just making sure that, you know, We're covering our bones from all aspects, like with the movements as well. How often do you go to the gym? I would do weights, um, and sometimes they're only in my house. And little weights that I do, uh, arm weights that I put little strap on and two kilo weights on my ankles and do some leg exercise.

So I do that two or three times a week. And then I do Pilates twice. So I do somewhere between. And again, it's work related. Sometimes I only do three of the above in a week. But I'd love to. to do five, you know, um, types of exercise five days a week where possible. So yeah, usually two pilates. And then just even when I have 10 minutes, if I can think about like half the time, we're going, Oh gosh, really, do I really want to do this?

No, I definitely do not want to do this. But. You're literally, and I say, I'll do 10 minutes, but you're literally five minutes into it. And you're like, I'm feeling great. And you end up doing an extra five, you know? So if you can try and do a bit of that, um, you know, even, you know, 10 to 20 minutes, five days a week, that's all it takes.

Make it easy. Like small weights at home is brilliant because as women, our upper body strength tends to be so weak compared to men. So the more we can, like, before I started kind of doing it. program. I would, I was not good at getting my arms above my head, whereas now, no strength in my arms. I remember my arms being, because I can see the photos going back.

I remember my arms at one stage being really toned. Um, and there were, They were just lovely. I didn't appreciate it at the time. Of course. 'cause you never do until you look back at the photos. But it was when I, the girls were small and I was lifting them the whole time, so I had these little weights.

Yeah. Yeah. Very in my life. And it was when I, when I decided to go freelance and left TV three and there were three and six and I was constantly, you know, lifting them, especially roi. Um, who was three? And she was always Uppy. Uppy, mama. Okay. . So, um, that was great. Yeah. Arms were great. Nice. You just didn't realize it at the time.

I know, I know. I think it is like, that's, you know, I always kind of say, you know, we can be, we can be on any form of medication. We can, um, you know, be, when it comes to menopause, it's like, there's no magic pill. There's no magic bullet. It's all about kind of bringing all the pieces together, like the pieces of a puzzle.

And that's what supports you as you go through, like you're saying, you know, with your. with men and men with bone factors, your movement, food, sleep. It's all of the pieces together. And for all for each of us, it's going to be completely different jigsaw. Right. Yes. Yeah. You know, and but I think that's really important because I see I see so many women who are frustrated because they feel maybe they're missing out because, um, maybe it is that they can't take HRT or maybe personally they don't want to.

And then they feel, OK, am I missing out? And, you know, again, if you go back to lifestyle and depending on the severity of your symptoms. Yeah, that's not going to be the case. But I think that's where keeping the conversation around menopause balanced is really important. Yes. And respect for Lorraine, isn't it?

Because like you and I will have, are both having different experiences. Yeah. And so will everybody else. It's knowing all of your options, you know, um, and don't make HRT your first choice, you know. try, try the natural route first, um, but get the lifestyle changes, right? Because no matter what you're taking, no matter what you're doing, they're not going to work unless you've got the right exercise and the right nutrition and the right resting in between.

Your book is great, Catherine. I find it brilliant. brilliant as a reference book. Yeah, because it's just one of those things that I'll always have nearby. Um, just even to remind myself and anytime I'm going out to do any of my talks, I'll also have a little read of it as well to again, to refresh. Um, cause it's, it's just got so much great information in there.

And then the essential guide to female hormones, the little booklet that 70 pages long, and that goes from post or from puberty to post menopause. Um, And it covers lots of the lifestyle changes and little tips from experts as well. So, you know, there's just some great reference points out there and some some brilliant tools.

There's just so much more information now than there was before. So educate yourself. Your daughters are going to sail through perimenopause and menopause. Oh, I hear. My husband could do this interview with you, you know, so much. God love him. He's like surrounded by hormones, teenage hormones, my hormones.

Yeah. And there is a menopause. I'm sure of it. Oh, yeah. However, we're not going there because they can do that by themselves. We're looking after ourselves. It's a man's world. That's, uh, that's, that's, uh, Definitely get it. Well, it needs more research, but it's, it's definitely. I hear we need more research for us first.

OK, let's get us sorted first, Catherine. Yeah, no, we'll keep, we'll keep the focus on, yeah, on women's health for now. But you know what Dr. Mary Ryan says a thing, and it's so true that the reason women are so competitive with each other kind of traditionally and always have been, um, and maybe not always helping each other out, um, as much as we could in the past is because they're not empowered.

So they're competing with each other. Um, and men don't compete with each other in the same way and that's because they are empowered, you know, they don't need to, there's lots of jobs on the top tier that they can have, whereas when a woman gets that position, she's guarding it nearly because there was only the one and doesn't want anybody to take it from her.

Um, I think that the more we talk and share and support, the more we'll be empowering ourselves and each other. And I think part of the big thing there is, is more women at senior levels. So the more we support women going through menopause. Keep them in the workplace. Then you're supporting them into those senior positions.

And that's definitely something we need to see more of 100%. Like if I look back to when I was in investment banking, um, certainly the higher up you go, the number of women. It automatically starts to decline, you know, so it's, it's, it's making the changes at work in the workplace so that, you know, that continuity is there and I think it's definitely coming.

I'd see it in different work sectors, but I mean, there's a lot. There's a lot to be done. We also need support from the government as well, though, Catherine, because the child care thing is something that holds women back big time. Again, I said to Peter just last night when we were looking at something and I said, gosh, you know, funny, there are more women in politics.

I said, you know, we should be running the world. And he said, well, I wish you would, because clearly Us men are making a hames of it. Yeah. And it's true. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Yeah, no, yeah, definitely, definitely. I think, like, I do, I think we're moving in the right direction. It's just not going to be quick.

It's not going to be overnight. But I think, like, if you think about it, I'd say by the time, and I don't want to mention the word, that we'd be in our 60s. But I do think we will see, I think we'll see a lot more women in more senior roles. I hope we do anyway, you know, and that would be, I think, the right progression and the right balance that we want in terms of gender equality in the workplace.

I think that's kind of our fight, do you? Because when you look back at it, women burnt their bras and, you know, tied themselves to railings and whatever just to get contraceptive pill to get the vote. Um, I think for us generation, our generation of women, um, that that's the thing that we have been pushing for the next generation.

Equality. Yeah, yeah. Gender equality. Yeah, yeah. Equality in the workplace. Yeah. Just to be empowered. Yeah, I, I definitely think we'll, I think, I think we will see a big change. Lorraine, if you were to give one, One might be hard and give more if you're like top tip to everyone listening in terms of, you know, what you felt helped has helped you most, maybe even recently in your menopause journey or.

You know, in the past. Mm. Well, for me, that what worked and got the conversation starting. And what I see now is, um, you know, it's lessening of the taboo or stigma attached, was talking. Mm. So it started for me. by just opening my mouth, um, and anybody who knows me knows that's not something that I find difficult.

Um, and, uh, my mom says out of the seven of us, I'm her smallest child but with the biggest mouth. And then I go, yeah, black cat, black kitten, kicky horsey, kicky foal. But, um, so yeah, just to talk. Just to talk, talk to someone, um, talk and share, because by doing that, you're helping yourself, but you're also helping others.

100%. Yeah. And that's really powerful because if you're struggling in silence and you're not talking to anyone, it just becomes darker and you don't see the light at the end of the tunnel. And there is light. at the end of the tunnel. And I think it's, it's sharing is so powerful, isn't it? So, so powerful.

And when you think of post menopause, I can't wait for this bloody menopause to start and get through and finish. Because now I know that I'm kind of armed and dangerous. I have all the tools that I need to hopefully manage my symptoms as best I can. And when I get out the other side, I'm going to have No more periods.

No more period pains. No more PMS. No anxiety. Worry about whether it'll come or not. Can I wear that white dress? You know, what if it comes when I'm on stage? You know, um, and None of the, the, the pain and the struggle and the worry that goes with that, you know, and, uh, and then suddenly, yeah, I'll be able to live my best life.

And any, anyone you talk to who's in post menopause, you know, once all the symptoms have gone, they will say that it's a, very freeing chapter that it's just kind of, you just come into your own. And if we look at many celebrities have come out and talked about their postmenopause years, my brain fog, I can't remember any of them right now, but, but like that is, that is, you know, I think that's the light at the end of the tunnel.

And I think it's also, if you look at all the work we're both doing in terms of our bone health, all of that is future proofing. And that's to me, I always look at that as another opportunity of menopause because I'm focusing now on symptoms, but at the same time, I'm future proofing for the years down the line.

Yeah. Yeah. Because as I say, we could have, please God, 40, 50 more years and we want them to be good ones. Dancing around the place, running around the place, sea swimming. Skydiving. You can do the whole lot, yeah. No, I'll draw the line at the skydiving. I might even draw the line at the sea swimming. I've only, I did do it in Canada in Baltic waters, but I know here, hang on, I had a wetsuit on me.

Ah, for goodness sake. From head to toe. So even my hands, every part of me, I'm, I'm a seriously cold creature. So the thought of that now, Lorraine, thanks so much for chatting today. Um, lovely as always. And, um, I know all our listeners will get great comfort out of listening to your story. And I think we'll share, you've mentioned quite a few things, which we'll share in the show notes as well.

So thank you very much. Thank you, Catherine.