Brain Fog in the Workplace with Mandy La Combre

Today on the Menopause Uprising Podcast we have Mandy La Combre. We talk about Brain Fog in the workplace and the much-needed support that is still required. Mandy is the Senior Industrial Relations Officer with the Financial Services Union. The Financial Services Union is the leading Trade Union representing staff in the Financial Services, Fintech and Tech sectors in Ireland. FSU has membership in over ninety companies and are organised in the Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland, and Great Britain with headquarters in Dublin and Belfast.

Mandy works across both jurisdictions: Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. Within FSU, Mandy represents workers on industrial matters in the banking sector, and also facilitates the development of policies that tackle inequalities in the workplace, seeking engagement from employers on the implementation of those policies. Gender-based collective bargaining is at the core of her equality agenda as FSU membership is 70% female, and women make up an increasing proportion of the workforce. Aiming to improve attitudes towards working environments for women in employment is at the heart of this policy work. Mandy has been a trade unionist and community activist all of her adult life and has been involved in several high-profile campaigns. Mandy has previously represented workers in the tech sector and the retail sector. Mandy currently sits on the Irish Congress of Trade Unions Women’s Committee.

To learn more about Mandy click HERE

Transcript -Automatically Generated

Welcome to another episode of Menopause Uprising with me, your host, Catherine O'Keeffe. Today's episode. So imagine being in the Auractus and being in full flow of speech. And all of a sudden you get dry mouth and brain fog hits that doesn't make for an easy situation today. I'm thrilled to be chatting with Mandy LeCrom, who is the senior industrial relations officer with the financial services.

So we talk about Mandy's experience, her own personal experience, and also the great work that Mandy is doing across both the Republic of Ireland and also Northern Ireland in relation not just to menopause, but also in relation to menstruation as well. I hope you enjoy today's episode. So, and as always, please do rate or review or comment on the podcast on whatever platform you're watching.

It really does help for us to reach more women and more people to create awareness around menopause. Thank you. The number one most challenging symptom, Mandy, as we know for our sisters in the workplace, is brain fog. And I know it's a symptom I talk about a lot because it was probably one of my most challenging symptoms in my early perimenopause years.

And I think you are familiar or you can relate to that symptom. Yeah, well, what I would say is when we embarked on doing an awful lot of research, uh, around the workplace, uh, issues around menopause and I started to see more and more what was coming through and what our members were telling us. I started to then realize that I was perimenopausal myself because I think the brain fog, And the kind of anxiety that's associated with that was the thing that was, I suppose, I was suffering from most that I could see that had happened and I had had a couple of particularly, um, really difficult experiences around that were, which were in, High, high profile public places and you know, one of them being in the Oireachtas and you're kind of on Oireachtas TV and you're being asked a question and then suddenly, all of a sudden, I just couldn't answer.

I just went wave blank and you know, It was really upsetting at the time, but I just kind of said immediately, Oh, it's gone. And then the person just asked me another question and I answered that, but it threw me. And then for the rest of the time that I was there, I felt really self conscious. And afterwards I got really upset.

Like when I left, I just burst out crying because it was the first time it had really happened to me. And it's happened to me a couple of times since. In terms of public speaking or, you know, chairing meetings, et cetera, where it just comes across as a blank. Now, look, I work in a very, very, I suppose, inclusive workplace.

We are very much all talk about menopause and menstrual health and periods and everything where we are. So, if I'm with my cohorts in here and it happens, I can just say, you know, and everyone will just go, fine, you know. But that's not the case, you know, when you're kind of out in the wider workplace, which is what makes it more difficult, you know.

And did you find, cause I know when that happened to me, when I was back, when I was working in the investment banking at the time, I found just like you, I remember being so upset. I was kind of, what is going on with me? You know, but did you, I definitely found Mandy, for me, I definitely found got it is impacted my confidence.

Did you? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I find that particularly in the last couple of months, I find, you know, probably since the latter part of last year and the start of this year, that my confidence is lessened because of us, because you don't know what's going to happen any situation. Like I'm regularly asked to go and speak at things or speak at conferences, et cetera.

And even though I'm really happy to do it and I'm, I'm, I know my subject matters reading well. I would have been extremely confident before to go into any of those situations, but I start sitting before I go up to speak now, going, I hope this doesn't happen. I hope this doesn't happen. I hope this doesn't happen.

And I start getting more and more upset. And then of course, it naturally happens. So I find if I'm speaking at things, I probably will need notes that I can just glance down, even if I never look at them. Just to know that they're so that if I kind of lose it for a second, I can go, Oh, there we were. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about, but it does really knock your confidence and it does stop you putting yourself forward for things.

And I suppose what's really, uh, disappointing, I suppose, at this part, this stage in our working lives, and what I find as well, I think, I feel as if I've worked extremely hard to become a senior person in an organization, and then to, you know, get to this point in my life where, I should be really excelling.

I'm now worried about how I'm going to be perceived, you know, and, and, you know, even saying that to my coworkers, they're like, you know, don't be silly, don't be silly, but I noticed this and I internalize this and it's, I find it really, really upsetting, actually really upsetting. And I think, you know what, I think the more we internalize things, it's a bit, I always say, it's like the pressure cooker.

You, you keep pushing things down, it's going to come out, it's going to like, you know, it's, it's like you go into that situation where you're trying not to be anxious, you're hoping it doesn't happen, but somehow I know, and it gets worse then. Yeah, but the waves, I think the waves of anxiety, I think people had always sort of said to me, Oh, you can feel a bit anxious or, you know, if you're perimenopausal or mariposal, you'll get a bit of brain fog, you'll be forgetful.

It's not, it's much worse than that. It's waves. It's like a wave. And then it stops. It's like, it's teasing you. You might remember this, you might forget this and it's coming and you're going stop, stop. And it's coming and coming and coming. And then it gets up here and it's completely gone. And, you know, I had an incident last week where my mouth went dry.

I felt like my tongue wouldn't work and I kept going and kept going to the point that the next day my tongue was sore and that was the catalyst for me to actually go back to the doctor and say, I don't care what tests are happening, what blood tests you're doing or. You know, I still get my period every month.

And these are all the kind of blockers to getting HRT, you know. And, you know, your hormones are this, that and the other, and they're fine. This is the blood tests are coming back that I'm not perimenopausal. I know I am. And I just said, I want to go on HRT and try it. So that's what I did last week. And my GP finally gave it to me, you know, so I've just started.

And I think, I think Mandy, that's a great example. It's a brilliant, brilliant example of what I hear a lot from women will kind of say to me, Oh, I, I might, you know, I have these symptoms, but my cycles are still regular. You can't be perimenopause. Well, you can, like you just, yeah. You know, and I think that's, um, um, that's a big part of the awareness around menopause that I still think we still have to kind of get that out there more.

So when I'm in workplaces, the one thing, when I talk about symptoms, the last symptom I talk about is our periods, because I'm always saying, listen, all of these other symptoms can happen before your, your period starts changing. And the periods change. They're so subtle. So it can be like, it can be a couple of hours, it's a half a day, but we don't really notice that.

We don't pay attention to that because in our heads, it's still kind of coming in the same week or whatever, you know? So, yeah, no, I think that's a really, really important point. And when you look at like, you know, your own experience, I think that has been great in terms of the fantastic work that has been done by several of the unions in relation to women's health, right?

Can you maybe just for our listeners, can you just talk us through, you know, um, the surveys, the survey, I guess, that you did first in relation to menopause? Yeah, well, first of all, I think, you know, we would have, uh, it's important to say that the financial services union has a very high, uh, demographic Female members.

So we have 70 percent female members. So we're generally as a union, very, very focused on, you know, gender issues anyway, like we would be well known for being the first unions to bring in domestic violence workplace policies. We have full paid maternity leave, you know, we have all of these, uh, Um, extra parental leaves and cares leaves, etc.

So, you know, it was a natural progression for us to start, uh, looking at, you know, things that really are, I suppose, mean a lot to women workers, right? We have a women's network. And as part of that network, they would ask us to go and kind of look at, you know, campaigning on different issues. So a number of years ago, we did a survey on menopause in the workplace.

And that was because we wanted to approach employers around, you know, seeking workplace policies. And when we looked at the Republic of Ireland, we didn't have the stats in the Republic of Ireland that we could rely on because employers in the Republic of Ireland will always say, despite the fact that the stats are the same in every country.

Oh, that's England, or that's Northern Ireland, or that's Europe. What about the Republic of Ireland? So we did our own survey and, um, we had, uh, almost 1, 500 respondents to the survey, so we had a good enough amount of people that had taken part, but we had 6, 109 member comments that actually like wrote, you know, specific instances and I have to say like all of the commentary and that the 6, 000, um, inserts into that.

I read every single one of them and I was so upset reading them because I could really see how the women in our union were really suffering. You know, they were having really bad episodes. Some of the stuff that I, I talked about, but also they were having episodes where they were like bleeding out in rooms, you know, they were being ridiculed.

You know, there was one woman, I think I told you before, Catherine, that, uh, you know, she said that she was at a board and, you know, She started getting hot flush and people started sneering at her and she Left work that day and she went home. She cut off all her hair and had a mental breakdown You know what I mean?

So people didn't go back like, you know, and so there was just women leaving workplaces all over the place So we said right we're gonna have to get the details here. So The results of our survey were 97 percent said that they would welcome a workplace policy. So that was really, you know, really showed that there was no workplaces really that had them in the finance sector.

90 percent said that their menopause affected their work and life, you know, so I mean, It's really obvious, I suppose, if it affects you in your private life, in your personal life, that that's obviously going to spill over into the workplace. I don't know how people would think it wouldn't. 75 percent said the gender of their manager influenced how they talked about the menopause.

And that was really important. And particularly in finance, because we do see, especially, you know, gendered roles in finance, that generally speaking, the men are in the senior positions. And, you know, even things like branch managers, et cetera, you know, there were women that just felt that they couldn't speak to their managers because, because of the stigma attached and, and, you know, um, and, and fear really about mostly as well.

So they, Almost 100 percent said that they would welcome management and union reps to be trained, but trained specifically to how to support women experiencing menopause. Um, there was, I suppose, an upsetting statistic that said almost 40 percent said it was still treated as a joke in the first place.

Workplace and like in those 6000 examples, we got many examples of how people were being laughed at and jeered at and I share one example with you from one of the main banks where a woman had said that, you know, she was in a branch and that a manager had turned up the heat in the branch. Making a joke about how they would all be, you know, menopausal and having hot flushes and, you know, if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen and all this sort of stuff.

So, you know, there was, was a lot of sneering and joking and some from younger people to older people as well, and younger women to older women. So there's a real lack of understanding on how this works. actually affects people. Um, there was only 17 percent that said menopause is not treated negatively in the workplace.

So that's really worrying. And I do think that, you know, the speaking up about it as well, people worried about, uh, you know, how they would be perceived in terms of, you know, promotional, um, opportunities, et cetera. And, uh, You know, even myself when I talk about menopause in my own place, I'm conscious that people are probably thinking, Oh God, you know, don't give her any more to do like, you know what I mean?

You're always worried that that's the perception like, and that shouldn't be the case for us. You know, um, 84 percent said that they were currently experiencing or likely to experience menopause. So that was a really, really high number of people that were either going to at some stage go through menopause or were currently experiencing it.

So it was no way, um, there was any way that we could really kind of ignore what was happening because it was really going to be a huge amount of people that were being affected, you know. And Mandy, do you think from when that was surveyed, that survey was done and it's like this, I did a survey back in 2021 in the workplace and you know, a lot of our stats there, they mirror exactly what I got.

Different because I would have had, a load of other, uh, different images and not just to find, but it, but it's, it's all saying the same thing. Do you think they're, you know, like I think you mentioned it was 40 percent said, you know, it was still kind of sneered at and whatever in the workplace. Do you think, have we had a change there?

What do you think? And I'm not naive, I know I work, I know I work with workplaces who are very positive, but I do know that there are still workplaces out there and I do know women are still in pockets, treated negatively. But what are your thoughts on that? Well, I think that, you know, there's probably a lot of women in the workplace now who feel that the joking is not as much as it used to be, okay, but I would say that they would still be, uh, an apprehension on, you know, raising it, you know, I think there's still that fear of being an other or having something wrong with you or being a problem, but I don't really see the jokes as much.

And we would talk to the women and our women members and the women, I suppose, from our women's network as well. And they would say to us that it's not joked about. In fact, recently we were, we kind of review some of the stats regularly, you know, in talking shops and, you know, uh, Some people from some of the banks were saying to us that, like, really it would be, you know, there would just never be anything negative said or never be a joke or, you know, it's, it's completely different in that, that regard since a couple of years ago, but it's still difficult to get the supports.

You know, still really difficult. Employers are all about, you know, you're pushing an open door. As long as it doesn't cost anything, you know. This is not news to anybody, you know. Um, you're pushing an open door on the kind of inclusivity and stuff like that. But, and you know, the equality issue. But, at the same time, if you're looking for practical supports that are going to be costly, then you can come up against barriers there, you know.

And a lot, but a lot of the practical supports around menopause don't have to be costly. No, they don't. They don't It's just like that thinking outside the box and, you know, being open to kind of supporting the individual person. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, we would have had, we've negotiated in our union, um, really, really robust menopause workplace policies in all of the major banks in the Republic of Ireland and in Northern Ireland.

So we, I cannot fault the finance sector in that regard. The banks have been really, really good on this, right? Once we got them to kind of have a look at it, they, they did, you know. Pull out the codes, right? But we would have, like, as you say, the environmental supports are really simple and easy, you know, there's, you know, proper ventilation, uh, access to desk fans, regulating the heat, um, changing fabric and uniforms, a lot of them have done that as well, which is really good, access to cold drink and water and toilet facilities for washing, all that stuff is really simple and stuff people should have.

The practical supports, then, although the banks have been very good at doing this, other, Sectors, I find are absolutely not, you know, following suit like we would have 10 days paid leave in our policies for women who, you know, need to seek medical or consultation or anything, any kind of, you know, supports or even just if you happen to take a menopause day.

that you would be paid for it. And also we would have things like, you know, that menopause related sickness doesn't trigger a performance improvement plan, which is really important as well, because we know that especially in our sector, in the finance sector, it's a very high performance culture, but the flexible working and the things like that, that are probably the most important piece around this are not costly.

You know, the 10 days you can see why people maybe don't want it. But you know counseling and things like that and employee assistance programs like these are all things that people have you know Yeah, they're already there. It's just yeah Tweaking them a little bit and I think and I think the other thing is when you spoke earlier about the apprehension that um You know a person can have in relation to opening up about their symptoms at work I I really do feel and I have I have worked with some great workplaces where I have seen where senior management have been very much part of the conversation And maybe in some cases they have shared their own experience and I that's again In Germany, because that means if you're listening to a senior manager talk about her experience, and she's saying it as it is, that's very empowering to listen to.

And that makes, that makes you then think, okay, well, actually, look, she's in this job. She's in a high profile job. She's got through this. Uh, so this is okay. And my workplace is supporting it. I think that's Where possible. I think it's a very important part of the conversation, you know, and I think that's where we have on the apprehension, because if we're not in a position where we can sit at a meeting table, that maybe we're behind a retail desk or wherever we are, if we can't feel comfortable to say, I'm having a moment, I'm having a conversation.

Lush. And remember, it's a passing phase. Absolutely. We, I, we, we need, that's, that has to happen, you know, for us to make true, to really make true change and progress. You know, we just have to feel comfortable that we're not threatened by opening up to the fact I'm in menopause because, you know, there's, it's, it's all about supporting yourself.

Your management. But the training part is extremely important in these policies as well. All of the policies have proper training and I suppose, you know, uh, socializing the policy into the workplace is really important. So making sure that an induction people are aware of policy, but also making sure that each, um, individual business unit, and we talked before about menopause champions, really important parts of this, you know, so that people are either aware and know that they have.

Uh, somebody they can go to if they want to speak to someone, and also you want to know that the managers in your area are trained to deal with this as well, so that you can feel you can have open conversations with them. And that's all about the visibility, you know, and breaking the stigma, you know, which is kind of part of what our Stop the Stigma campaign is around, you know.

Yeah, big time. And so just talk us through then in relation to the Stop the Stigma campaign, which, uh, I have, but I have it won't see that I was just lifting up a copy of the campaign. The Stop the Stigma campaign, Mandy, do you want to just give us an insight into that? Yeah, so it's a multi union campaign.

So it's calling for updated protections and workplace policies in relation to menopause and menstrual health. So we're not leaving out menstrual health. That's a big part of it as well. And it's raising awareness, um, you know, in workplaces, smashing the stigma because there's a huge stigma, especially particularly around period health care.

There's a huge stigma, you know, while people are talking about menopause, they still don't want to talk about periods, you know, it's about, it's Ireland's largest trade union. So it's across all employment sectors. So it's in both reporting, The public sector and the private sector. So it's giving a really good round view of all of the sectors of employment.

Um, and I'll tell you the unions involved. Obviously the financial services union, which is finance sector. We have Forsa, which is in the public sector. We have the INMO, which is the nurses and midwives. We have unite the trade union. We have the INTO, the trade union. The teachers union, we have the ESU, which is the ESB union, we have the communication workers union, which is CWU, we have CIP2, and we have the Irish Congress of Trade Unions on board as well, both Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland.

So it's really around all workplaces, all sectors. And, you know, as part of the campaign, it's around the pursuit of workplace equality, obviously, you know, and to see, uh, the introduction of, uh, menopause and menstrual health policies addressed. throughout. So that would really mean that, you know, while we've got them okay in, in a finance sector, we want to see them all in other sectors.

We're currently speaking to employers now around the menstrual health policies and specific policies around that. And I have to say, you know, banks have been quite good on that too. You know, we have free period products already available in, um, the buildings, uh, in the employments that we deal with. So, you know, we're making progress there and a lot of the menstrual health, um, you know, uh, supports actually are so very similar to the, the menopause support.

So you're not actually asking the employers to do too much more, you know, um, I think there's a, beer around, you know, whether you're looking for, you know, paid time off for every woman every month, but that's not really what we're doing. Um, and I think the, uh, kind of another important piece around this campaign is workplaces have evolved.

And I do think that, you know, we have to move with the times, you know, workplaces currently are set up for what workplaces were like. Decades ago, you know, women are staying in the workplace longer, you know, uh, there are more women in the workplace than ever. And in terms of a trade union campaign, like stop the stigma, there are more trade union members that are female, you know, in both sides of the border, all Island, we have over 50 percent of the membership and women are far more likely to join a training than the men.

So, you know, it's very much a union campaign, but very much really looking at the workplace. And saying that we need to really reassess and we would like the government as well, um, to ensure that, you know, existing occupation health and safety and equality legislation mandates for these supports as well, you know, that that menopause and menstrual health would be given due consideration to.

Yeah, and I think it's like it's a, it's a fantastic piece of work because it really does kind of set the precedence, the kind of, you know, in terms of this is what we want to happen. And I think if we look at endometriosis care, right? And I know there's a lot of work being done, fantastic work by Kathleen King in relation to endometriosis advocacy.

Advocacy in Ireland. And, you know, in terms of the care there, we're really looking for what Kathleen is looking for is Ireland becoming one of the first countries kind of paved the way in the treatment of osteoarthritis, which needs to happen. And I think this is another great opportunity where like, look at what Spain have done in relation to their menstrual care in, in the workplace.

And yeah. And it's another great opportunity for us to, to pave the way, not just in relation to menopause, but also in relation to supporting periods in the workplace. And you're right, like we, we struggle to talk about periods. Um, but it's, it's again, like, it's normal. Like we wouldn't all be here without reproduction.

And one in ten women in the Republic of Ireland suffer from endometriosis, you know, so that's a really high number and I, I think in, in most countries in Europe, it's around one in nine or one in ten, but I, I kind of always feel like when you see a lot of countries with one in nine and then you see the Republic of Ireland one in ten is people aren't saying they have it like, you know, and I think that that in particular is so debilitating in the workplace, so debilitating and simple flexibilities around working from home, et cetera, having a bad period, it's just make people's life so much easier, you know, so much easier.

Totally. And I think that one of the biggest challenge with challenges with endometriosis is that currently your number of years to get diagnosed, you're looking at anywhere from seven to 10 years, you know, I mean, and that's, that's, you know, one of the things we need to do. We need to get much, much better.

We need to get much better on all of this stuff, you know, Like, Mandy, think about it, like, when was women's health on the agenda in the workplace? Like, I'll tell you when Never. Never. There wasn't and like we were very progressive. We and you know at the time I do remember conversations around gender pay gap and all of that.

That's like over 10 years ago But women's health was not on the agenda And there's still even some you know Blockers even in the media around this because you would think that absolutely everybody would be on board with this when we when we did our menstrual health survey, which was a last year And we launched the results.

We did it around International Women's Day. And, you know, we did a lot of media stuff around that at the time, and a lot of interviews and stuff. And people were saying, Oh, but, you know, are you sure you should be pushing this? Because, you know, this will stop people from hiring women. I was like, what? Are you serious?

Right? And, you know, people said that about, um, maternity pay. You know, decades ago, people said, oh, if you start giving the maternity pay, you know, people won't hire women. Well, now we've got full paid 26 weeks for people that we represent. We also have 26 weeks for the man. in some of the employments as well.

Like, you know, it doesn't stop people. You just have to really move with the times, you know? And I mean, women are not going to be excluded from the workplace because of menstrual health or menopause policies. Quite simply, the workplaces wouldn't operate without women. You know, there's 50 percent of the workforce are female.

Yeah, that's great. We're amazing.

But no, but I think, I think, I think it's, this is so important. It really is like, you know, I would love to think there was no woman in Ireland who was suffering going through menopause. Work today. I know. I know. That's not the fact. I know. Unfortunately, there are still women out there right now today at work who are suffering in silence And I think you know, this is where this, you know, the stop the stigma campaign This is where you know The advocacy work that we're all doing in terms of really trying to push the government to ensure that the rights Like mandy, this is the time, you know, I know.

Yeah You And also, you know, and I know you and I spoke before about this as well about the financial impact of menopause on women. I do think, you know, trade unions need to start taking that up as well. Because, you know, we have to stop the stigma campaign around the awareness and, you know, having visibility in the workplace and getting the practical supports.

But, you know, Outside of work as well, you know, there's a socioeconomic factor associated for working women or all women around the cost of menopause that doesn't happen in other jurisdictions like Northern Ireland or in the UK, you know, and I mean, that is a big issue as well. The cost element attached to that, and even the access to HRT, if you look at some of the socioeconomic groups that, Struggled to actually get access to, to the medications.

I know I was even speaking to a woman when I was out walking the dog at the weekend. And I was telling her that I started HRT because that's what happens when women walk their dogs. And she actually said to me, you know, how did you get the HRT? I'm asking my doctor for years and they won't give it to me.

They're telling me I have to go to a consultant. So there's just so many barriers. Even in place for people who are trying to access the medication, never mind the cost of the medication. And then you've got to go into all the workplace stuff as well. So, it really is a trying time for women of a certain age.

Yeah, and I definitely think the financial aspect has to be dealt with. Because, like look at, you know, our colleagues in the North and in the UK, it's pretty much free HRT. Yeah. Compared to what we're paying here. And I know as you're aware, recently, I was looking at this and you're going on average, anywhere from 17 to 65 euros per month is what women are paying for various types of HRT, but there are barriers there.

And there is like, like you said, I, Mandy, I have met so many women who have told me that they cannot afford management supports in. Yeah. And this can be from HRT. It can be the option to maybe go for counseling. It can be maybe the option to look at alternative, you know, complementary therapies, but that there's the barrier there in terms of the finances and being able to support that.

So that's where I think the community initiatives in relation to support like The menopause clinics and everything are fantastic, but they need another layer and that other layer needs to be what are the other therapies, the complimentary therapies that can also support like, you know, um, cognitive behavioral therapy, all of these other.

You can also bring in alongside, um, HRT so that you're, you know, really offering a full multiple scheme of support, um, to people, you know, I, I, and of course a big part of that for me is the DEXA scan as well, because I find that so many women will go to their doctor and their doctor will kind of maybe won't We want to send them for a DEXA scan or there might be other reasons what wears, you know, at a minimum at the age of 50, at a minimum.

Women should be getting a DEXA scan because if you hit, if you hit your mid 50s and you fall and you break something and you just, you're gross as well, the horse has bolted. You know, you've kind of, you've missed. I have to say one of the things that gave me comfort was getting the DEXA scan. Because when I got that, then I just felt, wow, that's really amazing.

Got really good results from it. And I don't have brittle bones and, you know, it was really fantastic results. So I just felt like, right, something at least is working and going right. You know what I mean? And that gives you a confidence that you're not, if you fall over, because I know my mother, my mother suffers from osteoporosis.

She won't mind me saying that, but she suffers and has done for many years because she was plunged into very early menopause when she had a hysterectomy in her early forties, right? Yeah. And, you know, I suppose decades ago they didn't have, I suppose, you know, the doctor interest that they have now in this kind of thing.

So she, she, anytime she trips or falls, I think she's broken wrists, legs, arms, shoulders, everything, you know, and I was hoping that I wouldn't be going down that route as well, you know, so. That's brilliant because now that you know that you're born. Yeah. It means that then you can just make sure you're doing the right exercise.

Exactly. Yeah. Strong. And I think like, if we look at the key reasons women end up in nursing homes is fast. They break down or it's dementia. And they don't recover. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I think like, this is where I'm such a believer in using kind of the opportunities of menopause, like our forties and fifties to get our bones strong so that we're not going to, you know, be in a delicate position or get older.

I think it's hugely, hugely important. I think one of the things that like, since I embarked on the journey of doing the research around the workplace issue, I've just learned so much. So much about women's health care and all about menopause and how to even apply it in my own life and to my friends lives as well.

And to be able to, you know, uh, really keep an eye on things because, you know, prior to, I suppose, embarking on this journey for the workplace stuff, I was, Really in a fog about it, really, to be honest with you, you know, so it's been quite beneficial to myself. That's it. But isn't that what happens to all of us?

It's maybe not until it's on your own doorstep that you're in a position maybe to receive the information or to be open. Well, I thought I was going mad, Catherine, until I realized that the stuff I was reading to try and get the policies in the workplace was actually the stuff that was happening to me.

So I was thinking, I have this, I have this, I have this, I have this. And I thought I was going mad. I actually thought that there was a chance that I was suffering from stress and anxiety or something, you know, and then, and I still wasn't even dealing with that, by the way, you know, but, you know, that's what started making me think that that, that must've been.

What it was. And then when I started looking into all of the symptoms, I thought, sure, I'm 51 years of age, you know what I mean, obviously, this is me, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And I think that's where the starting point I always say, and I put this, I put a copy in the show notes is a symptom checker, because even because a lot of, um, a lot of women now are going are starting perimenopause even earlier, like it can be 41, 42.

Yeah. But if you know what the symptoms are, then it's kind of a bit like, right, not the same element of fun, but then you can kind of say, okay, okay, well, I think it might be, then you can talk to your doctor and they can rule out that it's not the thyroid. It's not iron deficiency. There isn't that. Yeah.

going on and that then okay right chances are yeah you're in perimenopause because yeah and I think that point that you raised earlier on is so important that the the lack of knowledge around you know perimenopause or having symptoms while you still have your monthly cycle I mean people are quite ignorant around that you know because you'll always hear when you go to doctors they're always saying to you oh but if you still have your period and you're still fertile and all this kind of stuff it's not really it's not time yet and like you're suffering really badly then, you know, and, and it could be so easily fixed, you know.

I think that's where the subtlety of perimenopause, I always think it's so subtle that we don't even, we don't even realize it until maybe someone says it to you. God, you don't feel, you don't seem yourself. Are you just, are you okay? Or you're crying at adverts. And you're crying at some Netflix, uh, documentary.

The ads come on and you start crying. And let's not mention one day, because when I watched that, I think I cried for about a week after. Oh my God, yeah. Oh my God, that was just like, my husband was even like, are you okay? I'm watching that at the moment, actually, and I was having a little last night. Stop it, stop it.

Well, I won't say anything more about it, but that's definitely, it's very, um, clearing and cleansing. Yeah. Therapy. Therapy, yes. Therapy thanks to Netflix. Mandy, thanks. Thanks a million for coming on and sharing all the great work that's been done. And I think, um, you know, I really look, I think kind of, you know, I know all our conversations really that all the hope is that all of these pieces of work that are being done by many of us will just basically encourage the government to make the changes that we want to see happen.

And it's not just for this generation of women. Uh, it's really for The next generation. Absolutely. My God, they're going to breeze through all of this because we'll have paved the way. I know. We'll have done everything. That's great. Hopefully. Fingers crossed. Um, thanks a million for joining us and I'll put any related information in.

Brilliant. Thanks, man. Thanks, Catherine. Thank you. Talk soon. Bye. Thank you for listening to Menopause Uprising. With me, your host, Catherine O'Keefe. I really hope you enjoyed this week's episode. Don't forget to like, subscribe, rate and review as it really helps the show.