Workplace Acceptance and Trans-Male Menopause with Tate Smith

Today on Menopause Uprising we talk to Tate Smith. Tate is an award-winning trans activist, consultant, and speaker, passionate about trans male visibility, educating others and debunking common myths surrounding trans people. Today we are talking about the effects of testosterone, workplace acceptance, and trans-male menopause.

To learn more about Tate click HERE

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Gender GP webiste HERE

Transcript -Automatically Generated

Welcome to this week's episode of Menopause Uprising with me, your host, Catherine O'Keeffe. Today's episode is one that I feel is very thought-provoking and it really resonates with me in respect of my passion, that we're very inclusive. When it comes to the menopause conversation today, I was thrilled to chat with Tate Smith, who is a fantastic advocate in the UK for his own experience of male menopause.

And one of the things that I've said for many years is that. You know, natural menopause is a privilege and I am fully aware having been very lucky to work with so many different people going through various forms of menopause of the different challenges that come with it. So in today's episode, Tate and I talk about his experience through menopause and the different challenges he faced.

in the workplace, but also in his personal life. I hope you enjoyed today's session and do look at the show notes where you can get all information on where you can follow, um, Tate. Thank you. So Tate, I have great memories of living and working in London. Um, such a fabulous city, absolutely loved it. But I have to say, I love getting out of London too and traveling and all that kind of good stuff.

And it's funny, you know, I, I, I, if someone said to me 20 years ago, I'd be having this conversation with you today, I'd be kind of like, no, I guess my own career, much like yours has kind of taken many twists and turns along the way, uh, to lead me into kind of, you know, this area of talking every day about menopause and also hormonal health.

And I guess if we just dive straight in there, Tate, and would you like to share your experience of, uh, menopause? Yeah, sure. Why not? I guess, uh, the menopausal symptoms started for me when I was about two years into taking testosterone and it really started once I made the switch from testo gel, a gel form of testosterone I applied on my shoulders every morning, to Nebido, which is, uh, injected at the buttock and is a really strong form of testosterone.

So what I think that did was kickstart those menopausal symptoms for me. Within the first six months of taking testosterone, I, um, stopped menstruating anyway, but that would have fast tracked me through traditional perimenopause. But then what I first started getting was symptoms of dryness, um, in the lower region.

Now, I'm happy to say the word vaginal dryness, but some trans people feel discomfort around that word. So it might just be best just to use lower region to anybody that's listening. Um, but yeah, I started experiencing dryness. And feeling like I constantly had a UTI and I just figured maybe testosterone was changing things down there because I wasn't informed, uh, about maybe getting menopause of symptoms.

And I certainly had no awareness of it when I was presenting female cause I presented female for 19 years. So unfortunately, like I think a lot of people think menopause is an old woman's issue. So it wasn't on my mind at all. I kept getting these symptoms of a UTI. I kept going to the GP and doing lots and lots of urine samples, all coming back negative.

And I thought there's, there's something at issue here. So I presented it to my GP, uh, NHS, and they said, we don't know what this is. Let's keep doing the test. Are you sure you don't have an STI? Are you sure you're not pregnant? Uh, let's send you for a smear test. Let's send you for an ultrascan. I did all of these appointments and they were really, really invasive and they all came that same seat.

We don't know what this is all negative Mr. Smith. So I thought, okay, well I'm gonna have to pay private healthcare costs to see my endocrinologist who originally prescribed my testosterone back in 2019. And by the time I was experiencing these symptoms, it was 2021. So I did exactly that and we had a virtual call similar to this and she said, Oh yeah, that's vagina atrophy.

That's a symptom of the menopause right there. And I went for six months of invasive procedures, fighting with my GP going, you know, I'm worried it's something going on down there. Is there something I need to be aware of that hasn't been researched into? And yeah, just to get that, uh, couple second answer for, uh, 170, my ad.

But yeah, uh, I was prescribed estrogen cream by Vestim that very same day and was instructed to apply it nightly, which really helped relieve the symptoms straight away. Cause it was really discomforting, you know, uh, having, you know, sexual intercourse and, you know, wearing boxes and like, you know, not being able to wear skinny jeans and things like that.

Like it just felt really delicate down there. So that really helped me and I've been applying it two to three nights a week as maintenance, which has really helped. And now I am tackling more of the cognitive symptoms. So brain fog and forgetfulness. And I'm obviously now concerned about what will happen once I have a hysterectomy.

Um, but that's a bridge that I'm probably going to cross much later on. Just to, just to, um, because it's a lot to deal with, right? And like, just if we look at, um, uh, the vaginal atrophy, it's so common. It's one of the most common symptoms for a sole man. But yes, what I would find is that, um, there's a reluctance to talk about it.

And there's also the lack of awareness like you experience. And I guess, um, it can be, it's, it's harrowing the symptoms really, because they're so debilitating. Like if you look at, you know, where, where you, you might be kind of on that road where you're being prescribed medication for UTIs, but yet you don't the UTI and it can actually make the experience worse or what I would see for a lot of people is that they feel they thrush like symptoms.

And they, you know, might, you know, apply an over the counter cream and, but it's actually, it's not a truss at all. But I think what was unfortunate, Tate, is the fact that, you know, you, there wasn't a conversation in terms of, look, you might experience symptoms like this, which would've just give, you know, you wouldn't have had that six months of kind of back and forth and back and forth, which I guess that's where, why the education and awareness is so important, isn't it?

Completely. And you touched on a really important point there, which is There's a reluctance to talk about the genre trophy and call out what it is. And especially with us trans guys, uh, especially if like me, they weren't informed about it, or maybe were not aware that it was going to affect them. And when it does, because we experienced such dysphoria in our bodies and discomfort anyway.

Having that extra layer of discomfort is not something we want to talk about. And nobody wants to talk about their privates, right? I certainly didn't. And it took me about a year. Um, after I started taking the cream to confidently speak about it, I did an Instagram post, I've incorporated it into my speaking engagements, uh, I've got over that shame and I've processed it because I don't want any other trans man or a non binary transmasculine person, uh, who may or may not be taking testosterone.

Cause obviously we, we would go through it anyway, as assigned female at birth people. I don't want them to feel that same shame, and I want them to be able to have that word, actually, because When I was Googling these symptoms, I didn't know what I was looking for. So I was going effects of testosterone and dryness and, um, extreme levels of brush and things like that.

But once you then have that resource for vaginotrophy, whether it's the NHS or medical websites, you then know how to treat it. The problem is, is that it's geared a lot to cisgender women. So reading it, there's a lot of female language. The marketing is pink. There's a, there's a lot of gender washing there.

Um, so it's really, really important for me to be able to talk about it. And part and parcel of that is educating GPs. I'm doing quite a bit of work through just sharing my story. Speaking with medical professionals when I can, university researchers, so that they can inform medical bodies and anybody that they know that yes, trans people do go for the menopause too.

Yeah, and that's so important, isn't it? Because unfortunately we know like in terms of research awareness when it comes to trans health, it's nowhere near what we'd love it to be, right? Definitely, definitely. And, and just, and you mentioned, sorry, Ties, um, if you don't mind, would you mind sharing what age you are now currently?

Yes. No problem. I'm 24 about to turn 25. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I look about. So like it's. You spin. Yeah. But it's very, it's very young. You know what I mean? Because like you said, uh, just earlier, we, we think about menopause, like we're always forever thinking about the older woman, and it's something that I, I talk about a lot, that it may impact all genders and it may impact all ages from adolescence.

So that's a huge part of the awareness. When it comes to, to, to menopause, you, you mentioned another key areas, the cognitive side of it. Did you notice that straight off or was, is that a more recent symptom? That's a more recent symptom, actually. I thought that it was. Due to stress, um, you can probably relate to this trying to find any other excuse and possible symptom to distract from what you're really feeling like brush or a UTI and then realizing you're going for the menopause.

With me, I thought, Oh, I'm being a bit forgetful. Maybe I'm a bit stressed. Maybe I've just got too much on my mind. And then I, I spoke with other people in the medical space and it would make sense the amount of years I've been on testosterone now, nearly five years, I've still been taking that Nebido, that really strong injection, uh, applying that cream and yeah, unfortunately, That is something that I'm, I'm currently working through, um, the way that I'm dealing with it is writing everything down, setting lots of reminders.

I recently consulted a client on inclusive menopause, and they had a really great brochure actually that I could read at. Granted it was aimed towards women, but it was so fantastic because it had a section about. How walking actually activates your neural pathways and it clears them. And I thought, Oh, okay.

So that's why I get all my bright ideas and feel refreshed after having a walk. So what I've been doing is taking more walks, making sure I'm just processing information and, and most importantly, giving myself the patience. Because I don't want this to become an issue for me. You know, I'm already dealing with the physical side.

I don't want to beat myself up for my brain letting me down, as per se. Yeah, and it's kind of, we have to be compassionate towards ourselves, don't we? And I think, you know, that can be challenging at the best of times. But I think particularly when you've got challenging symptoms of menopause, it's more important to be, to be compassionate.

I know, um, up here, uh, in kind of the North in Donegal, there was a doctor who came up with the term, the green prescription, and it was all about, you know, it's a bit like, um, the Japanese term, uh, shinran, uh, yuku, which is forest bathing and just the benefit, but it's like the benefit of being outside, but the benefit of walking, the oxygen that goes to the, to the brain, you know, and really just, it's a bit like clearing the cobwebs, isn't it?

Well, completely. Yeah. Mm, and it really, really important from that cognitive side. And I, I think it's the most challenging symptom when it comes to menopause, uh, is the, the, the brain fog and the cognition and so forth. But I think again, it's having that awareness will help in terms of, you know, what are the steps that you can take to preemptive, you know, which it sounds like you're, you're You're already, you're already all over that one.

Yeah, it's a bit like I always kind of say with all stages, you kind of have to adapt and be flexible because maybe what worked six months ago might work now. And you know, you have to be continuously kind of reviewing. What you're doing and how you're supporting yourselves. So you mentioned, um, hysterectomy.

Is that a next step for you? Yes. Um, it is for me personally. Um, not all trans men, uh, choose to go through it and that's completely their choice. Um, but for me and how I feel in my body, um, I don't want to birth a child. Um, I would prefer to have, um, That system taken out of my body just to reduce the risk of, of anything, uh, God forbid.

Um, but yeah, that's, that's something in my near future, but I don't want to rush into it just at the moment because I had my chest surgery. Uh, about three years ago, and that was a very, very major surgery for me. And I thought that it was going to be the only one I was going to have. And it really took it out of me, if I must say, especially being I'm dynaesthetic for the first time and that recovery, so I'm certainly in no rush to have a major surgery.

Uh, I just want to give myself enough grace. And time to settle into my body, celebrate those five years on testosterone, turning 25, you know, going, okay, like, I feel like a bloke now, 25 year old guy. I see who I want to see staring back at me and then have that surgery and then look to recover and get on with my life.

That's very wise, Tate. You're, you're, there's a lot of wisdom there in terms of. You know, taking the process slow, and I think that's very, very important, isn't it? Yeah, our bodies are delicate things, and I certainly, at times, feel fragile with these menopausal symptoms, and let's not forget, I'm still medically transitioning, you know, I look masculine enough, I love the way that I look, but I know I can look better, and my body is still changing, you know, I'm going through a second puberty, hence why I look so young.

Um, but I've really got to give myself that, that patience. I mean, I didn't always have that mindset. I wanted to get rid of those menopausal symptoms. I used to beat myself up about not having a beard, but I had to really look at myself and go, Tate, yes, you're 24, but your body and what you're going through is the equivalent of a 14 year old boy that you was in school with.

So give yourself the grace and have some patience. Yeah. And then just speaking of a 14 year old boy, are you, have you found, how's your skin been with everything? Have you found that challenging? Well surprisingly, um, I haven't suffered from acne. Um, I, I put that down to, I don't know if this is right, my vegan diet.

Um, I've, I've washed my face regularly anyway, and I think good genetics is part of it as well, because both my mum and dad had good skin, particularly my dad, and I mean I've taken very much after him. It's the um, it's the back though, so I've, I've saved it from my face, but it's all gone onto my back, so I've got the joys of having, yeah, like 14 year old.

back knee. Um, but it's just a case of, you know, using a good brush, exfoliating, making sure you don't stick shower gel on there and leave it. Um, but yeah, it's, it's, it's funny. That's that to me and the hunger, smelting all the plants into shower twice a day. That's literally like what I remember the secondary school boys being like, and now I'm experiencing.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and yeah, they would be kind of, you know, I, I have a 14 year old, so I'm living, I, yes, I can totally, totally release or totally release. And he was only, he was only asking me last night, you know, how he could get rid of his, uh, blackheads. And of course he won't let me touch them. And then he's like, can I go somewhere?

Can I go somewhere and get rid of them? And I You can just do them yourself. Yeah, you bring up a good point, actually. My pores are definitely more open. I've just realized that actually, cause I forget there's, there's so many changes with testosterone, the minuscule ones go unnoticed by me. But yeah, definitely, I noticed blackheads and paws and stuff, but I, yeah, I did it myself, but no, you should definitely call for help since you know about it.

Yeah. And you know, isn't that why you mentioned earlier that you kind of keep a track of everything you, you, you write it down. Like that's really important, isn't it? Because Well, with the cognitive side too, you can forget and sometimes you can be making progress in relation to the symptoms where you might actually forget because some other symptom then comes in and you realize, Oh, I had forgotten about that or, you know, I, I always find that hugely beneficial in relation to our health because we, we can just forget really, you know, whether we're making progress and stuff.

lose sight maybe of the fact that we are, we are making, making progress. Definitely. And Thij, Thij, what about in relation to, um, to the workplace? Um, as you know, we've spoken about, you know, I do a lot of work in workplaces in Ireland and internationally, but how, how, what's your experience been to date of, you know, from a trans perspective, but also from the perspective of the young early menopause?

What's in, in the workplace? How have you found that? Um, I, well, workplaces I've seen have not taken into account the trans experience when it comes to menopause and also people of color as well, which is really disappointing. A lot of times when we see private healthcare websites, which is offered to corporates or marketing or leaflets and brochures, it's depicting A white elderly woman, and that just really narrows what people think that menopause looks like.

Um, so when I was transitioning in the workplace, I'm self employed, set up my own business now. Um, but there was nothing really offered to me that could either pre warn me or if I was experiencing it. Um, I could go to somebody for support and, and talk about it. I mean, I didn't offer that information up to my private healthcare provider, but I reckon if I did, I don't think they would have been well equipped.

I mean, they, they didn't really know what my chest surgery was when I wanted them to cover the costs. let alone menopause. Um, but I am seeing a lot of work being done to update inclusive language, which makes me really happy. And I would say to anybody, you know, listening or watching, um, when you're speaking about trans people going through the menopause, uh, you, you don't need to eradicate the word woman.

That's not what we're trying to do. But when you're referring to menopause or women, just add And trans people, or you can say people experiencing the menopause, menopausal people, you know, I get it. You might want to be inclusive of other people, but you don't need to say, uh, women, trans and non binary people.

If it's going to save you the time, just say menopausal people. That's what I've got in the habit of doing as well, because remember, I still have to use this language even as a trans person. So I'm seeing a lot of that now being done in policies, conversations. Yeah. Yeah. Workplace webinars, I'm being invited to these events now, which is absolutely fantastic because you can see how eye opening it is for the audience.

And actually it makes you recall back to your GCSE, you know, biology days where you go, Oh yeah, if the testosterone does suppress, well, sorry, if the estrogen does suppress and obviously the testosterone is going to affect that as well, and that's why the reports would be brought on. So I love seeing that, like both modes.

And I think that's something that I've been really passionate since I started talking in workplaces years ago, was to include being that inclusion piece of it. The fact that, um, you know, the fact that menopause can impact all genders. And I think that's a hugely important part of the conversation. And I certainly, I hear what you're saying in terms of, you know, particularly I hate when I see the photos of the gray haired older woman.

Because, you know, that's just not representative at all. I certainly, I think I've seen, I've seen very progressive changes here in relation to that, where the stereotypical isn't there, but now it still comes up. Don't get me wrong. But I will say to you, Tate, when I review a lot of menopause policies, It's the one area that I will go back on is the inclusive language.

And you generally find some companies have been fantastic, but they don't mind. They're thrilled when they get the feedback that listen, you just need to make it a little bit more inclusive. Um, you know, and they're thrilled then to get that feedback because I think once you bring, once you make people aware of it, they're very happy to support.

It's that awareness piece. I agree. Hence why we work with them, right? Because they don't know the language and they need support with it. And, uh, you know, people like us, we're happy to support them. Yeah. And I think, I think to, to, to, I think really too, what a lot of people are afraid of, they're afraid of saying the wrong thing.

Yes. And I get that because they don't want to offend and, you know, that can maybe make you shy away from talking about someone, something or a topic or subject, whatever. But I think once you have the language, I think that's where, you know, you won't offend someone. And I think also, you know, I think people are just, um, Uh, very happy to be included, you know, even if maybe your P's and Q's aren't a hundred percent.

If you know what I mean, you know, did you find, did you find teeth when you went to the health insurance company with your chest surgery? Did you, was it covered or was that a, an issue for you? Uh, it was covered in the end because I had to fight for it, um, but I was very lucky that I was working in a really supportive workplace and the whole plan was behind me and they really advocated for that change.

So I was very, very lucky. They already covered bottom surgery anyway, but they just needed an out trans person to come along and say, Hey, listen. You know that this surgery is just as important as well, let's not police trans bodies because bottom surgery doesn't dictate my transness and actually no transition looks the same.

And there are going to be many more people entering the workplace wanting you to cover these costs, just like someone who might be coming through IVF or surrogacy or fertility packages. Yeah, very, very true. That's it. That's and, you know, unfortunately, you know, we do know like, um, uh, fertility requirements and, uh, you know, are just on the increase.

So again, it's very important, you know, that all these procedures, procedures are covered. Do you find, do you find now, uh, you know, you're self employed now, how do you find that? Well, I really enjoy it. Um, I mean, there are people probably going to be listening, thinking self employed at 25, what's he doing?

But I mean, I, I came straight out of college at 19 after failing my A levels, doing a legal secretary course and went straight into work. And I was very, very lucky that I worked my way up very quickly. Um, I worked very, very hard. And then at the same time, I launched a public speaking career. Started consulting internally in my workplaces and then branched out externally and then became an advocate for the trans community all at the same time.

So what I've done is I've set myself up for a nice and rewarding career outside of law and naturally I got to the top of my game last year. I had all these fantastic speaking engagements behind me. I was having so much fun with it and I saw the impact my consulting was having and having conversations like these where I'm going, you know, you just need to adapt the language.

Oh, thank you, Tate. We love that we have this advice now and can count on you. And I thought, why don't I take that? And shape a consultancy for myself. Good brands. Now I deliver lunch and learns where I talk about the trans male lived experience. I've got the consulting, I've got the strong background in law and amongst other corporates, particularly in Canary wharf, that's where I started.

So I want to make sure that every workplace is trans inclusive and not afraid. And ask these questions. So it's coming up to a year now, this May, uh, I'll be launching my company formally. I've got lots of exciting, uh, work to showcase and, uh, nice new snazzy branding, which will be launching soon. Yeah, I'm happy.

That's very exciting, isn't it? Very exciting. And I think what's very powerful, Tate, is that You're using your voice and your experience to help others and to pave the way for others. And I think that's where we, you know, we do similar work in terms of, you know, our, our advocacy is born from, um, our own journeys and from our own passion in terms of supporting, um, you know, we're in it together is what I, is what I always say.

In relation to, um, in relation to workplaces, what, what, if you were to say, you know, Top three starting points a workplace can take to support trans health, but also to support, you know, maybe going through the menopause or even the hormonal aspects of it. What would that be or what would that look like?

Um, first and foremost, I would say, get that language correct. Go through policies, go through anything that could be gendered, whether that be, uh, menopause, fertility, surrogacy, um, you know, women's and men's only events, update it to make sure that it's inclusive, all gender identities. And if you need support with that, get a consultant in.

It doesn't need to be me, although I'm happy to help. Uh, and in second of all, check that your private medical insurance. Benefits packages, cover, gender affirming healthcare and surgery, both top and bottom for trans people. The reason I say this is because the waiting list now is five to seven years on the NHS in the UK.

But they are seeing one patient a week. So when you think about it, you could actually, if you enter the system now, be waiting 20 years. So what us trans people have to do is turn to private health care, which is extortionate. And now private health care have their own waiting list and are at capacity now.

So if you can provide that level of health care, cut those costs. really alleviate that stress off of your trans employee. I mean, you're not going to be taking the financial burden of them, but also most importantly, the mental burden. And I'm sure you would want that for your trans employees. And thirdly, I would say, make sure teams, line managers, colleagues, everybody, senior leaders is involved in trans inclusion.

Don't shy away. It's not a controversial topic, you know, do firm wide emails to say we support you when it's trans day visibility on the 31st of March, you know, celebrate Pride Month, make sure you're hosting panels that showcase trans and non binary people, and not just what you perceive LGBT. People to be gay, white men, you know, really showcase the whole spectrum and keep drilling this in, have that terminology training, host these lunch and dance webinars, get fantastic trans speakers in and put resources up on your intranet, it's really important that.

You're having these conversations, you're educating people, and then you're continuously doing it as well. You don't want it to be a one day a year thing, particularly when it's awareness week in November, you don't want to do all the work then and leave it all year round because what's going to happen if someone comes out as trans?

And you don't have that policy. And you don't have that blueprint. And the line managers are trained on how to deal with this. Must do the work first. It's, it's so, so simple, right? Well, I think people think because the word trans is attached to it, it's a lot more difficult and controversial. And all you've got to do is speak to a trans person like me.

There's plenty of consultants out there who can help you. We're just going, have you thought about this? No, it's okay. You don't need to say that. Use this word instead. Don't worry. You're doing the right thing. Here's how I can help you. Yeah. And that's great in that you're coming from the legal background as well.

And I, I think it's all about like, you know, if you think from a manager's perspective and look, we're making great, we are making great progress, but you know, if we were to go back five, maybe 10 years, you know, it's, uh, It's the uncomfortable feeling, you know, if someone comes and talks to you about their menopausal symptoms.

And it's the same, it's the same issue if someone comes and talks to you about their, their trans health. It's the uncomfort because we're not comfortable talking about it. And I know I would certainly say, um, you know, when it comes to awareness here in Ireland, we've a lot of work to do yet in this area for sure.

You know, so I think in the UK, I think, again, you're definitely ahead of us, um, in, in respect to this area in the workplace and outside of the workplace. But I, I think we've a lot of work to do yet, you know. Oh dear, bless you. Yeah, but then you see, this is where, this is where, you know, in ways, um, we tend to mirror, uh, you know, community society wise, UK and Ireland tend to be very representative of each other.

So, you know, if we look at the menopausal space. The UK is certainly ahead of us in many respects, but we've caught up very, very quickly and we're continuing to do so. And I think it'll be the same in relation to trans health, that we will, we will catch up. It's just going to take us, it's just going to take more time on our end, you know.

Right. Even with the incentive for me to do more work here so it can translate over to you. Exactly. Yeah. No, it is. And it's, it's like, that's where, that's where it's all, it dribbles down and you tend to find a lot of, um, uh, a lot of our research, et cetera, you know, it will be looking at what other countries are doing.

And of course the UK is so close to us, um, you know, that we do tend to, you know, When we're looking at menopause, menstruation, all of that, uh, you know, we always kind of, the UK is the closest. If you look at North America, they're very behind in relation to all these aspects, you know? So, um, yeah, I think it's just, yeah.

So you're paving the way, which is a great thing. Thank you. Very, very kind . Um, yeah, and I know, I know what it's like when you're a, not necessarily, you're not a lone voice, but I know when you're one of the early voices. In any field, it could be a bit like, Oh, okay. Yeah, I think there's only a couple of other, uh, trans men that are speaking about menopause and, uh, I happen to be the most prominent one probably in the corporate space in London, um, unless there's somebody else that I'm not aware of, someone can obviously prove me wrong.

Um, but yeah, it's, I definitely do, do feel that, but as an activist, it just gives me that drive to, to advocate for more change and speak more openly about it, because You know, I've, I've always wanted to be a change maker, a trailblazer, and if I can give back to the community and help other trans guys this way, then, then I want to do that.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, which is, which is brilliant. Have you any advice that you would give to someone who maybe is just on the cusp, you kind of like hoping, I know here, um, say we have specialist menopause clinics now that are covered by our, um, so our HSC is kind of your equivalent is the NHS. So we would have public clinics here, but these are very new.

They've, they've only come in the last couple of years. And certainly there isn't a sub part of them that, um, is, is there just for, specifically for the trans experience of menopause, but is really that anyone going through that would fall in under, you know, under the general, um, complex menopause, menopause clinic.

But is there any advice that you would give someone who's maybe just about to start that journey and, you know, just isn't. Yeah, isn't aware, is there, is there even any specific websites that you gear them towards or, or point them in the direction of, any, any advice to use? Yeah, certainly. I mean, you can have a look at my work.

Um, I do lots of infographics about my journey with menopause. Um, you can follow at Tate Michael Smith. The first website I put any links, any links Tate you mention, I put them all in the show notes. Thank you. Thank you. But the first website that I came across that specifically referenced trans Non binary gender diverse menopause was gender GP, which is a private healthcare provider.

I believe they, uh, advised British Menopause Society on their inclusive language, which is really fantastic. Um, so they're a good resource. Granted it is a one pager. Um, I would really love to see more research being done. From my understanding of working and speaking with researchers in the NHS, this is being done.

Um, it just needs funding or it may not be, uh, made public yet. Um, but my advice would be, um, take all this information, uh, you know, make some notes if you're listening to this podcast and present that to your GP, if, if any of this relates to you. Um, and I'm happy for anybody to reach out to me as well. I don't want anyone to feel like they're going through it alone.

But what I would say is you're going to have to politely challenge your GP and don't let them do what they did to me, which was throw. Quiet, you know, insulting options. Like, are you sure you're not pregnant? Are you sure you haven't had a secret STI, things like that. Stand your ground just like I did and say, no, I know how I'm feeling.

There's a trans man I've heard speaking about this. I've read this website. Even if you've looked at Reddit threads or something on a forum, you know, that's because unfortunately there's not enough. Trans male representation anyway, let alone in the menopause space. So if you find something that you relate to, note it, note down all of your symptoms in the notes on your phone like I did and present that to your GP and make sure you get that cream because you definitely don't want to be suffering in silence.

And the one thing you do find with, um, local oestrogen, uh, the, the, um, local oestrogen users, the body responds very quickly within two weeks, you generally start seeing an improvement. Yeah, it did for me. Okay. Brilliant. Um, Kate, thanks so much. Um, thank you for the amazing work you're doing because I, I know it's helping people, you know, in the UK and close to your home.

But, uh, don't underestimate the reach and the impact that that will have over now and over the coming years as well. So it's, it's really powerful because you know, yourselves, the psychological aspects are very, very challenging. And you know, it's really, uh, you know, I think sometimes when, you know, you're just not alone, that somebody else has experienced or is going through with that.

That's very, very powerful for anyone, you know, and offers great support. Thanks. So we'll share you, if you send me any links that you'd like me to mention in the show notes and we'll share all of that, um, on the, on the podcast and, you know, where people can, um, can connect with you. And I think it's very much watch this space because I think you'll have a, at the age of 25, the ripe old young age 25 says the 53 year old.

You have, uh, you have a great journey and adventure ahead of you, which, uh, I think is, uh, is going to be fantastic. So yeah, I'm, I'm thrilled to have gotten to know you and to, to be sharing that these, um, these adventures with you. So ta thanks Million and uh, thanks for everyone for to, for tuning into another episode of Menopause Uprising.

And please do check out the show notes. Give Tate a follow on Instagram and check out all the resources that we'll link below as well. Thank you. Thank you for listening to Menopause Uprising with me, your host Catherine O'Keefe. I really hope you enjoyed this week's episode. Don't forget to like, subscribe, rate and review as it really helps the show.