Why Ageing is a Superpower
Today on the Menopause Uprising Podcast my guest this week is Orlaith Carmody.
Orlaith is the Principal Advisor for Age Friendly Ireland's Business Recognition Programme, is a seasoned business and executive coach, as well as a highly regarded consultant. She is widely recognized for her expertise as an advisor, facilitator, and strategist. Over the years, Orlaith has provided coaching, training, and workshops both within her home country and on the global stage. Today Orlaith shares how ageing is a superpower and how she has never felt better! Hope you enjoy!
See the below links to learn more about the amazing work Orlaith does
Transcript -Automatically Generated
Welcome to menopause uprising with me, your host Catherine O'Keeffe. So we are continuing on the positive aspects of menopause. And I think you will really enjoy my conversation today with Orla Carmody. And we are talking again about the positives of menopause and this whole chapter of your life. Enjoy the episode.
Don't forget to subscribe. To read or review on whatever platform you're listening. Thank you. Orla, thanks so much for joining me today. And I know ironically we connected during COVID and we were meant to meet up and events and so forth, and then of course COVID happened. So now at least we're, we're finally catching up.
So thanks so much for coming on the podcast today. My pleasure. Lovely to be here. And for anyone who isn't familiar with Orla, Orla is a wealth of knowledge and has had a huge career as a communications and executive coach and has been working in this space for many years. So, you know, today we're going to talk about, as most of you know, menopause features in most of my podcasts.
So to start Orla, would you just like to give us some. You know, insight into your own experience of menopause, how you found it. I think, um, Catherine, to put it sort of bluntly, I think my generation were sold a pup on the whole menopause idea, right? So I'm, I'm 63 now, and I feel at this point, I'm at the peak of my career.
I'm at the peak of my fitness. I've never felt better. I've never had more energy. I'm as active I've ever been in my life. So was I lucky? No, I struggled like everybody else, but I suppose I know how to handle it now through making it my business to know and to learn more about this. So when I say we were sold to pub, when I was in my forties and fifties, we were told don't touch H or T it'll give you cancer.
And a lot of us would have struggled with that. Now, personally, I found Because at that point in my life, I'm very much a mind over matter person, and I just would not allow myself lose my car in a car park or anything like that. I just wouldn't. I wouldn't tolerate that in myself. I'm a bit hard on myself and a bit driven.
I'm a bit alpha. So, I mean, I just. I was kind of, this is not going to impact on me. I'm not going to allow it impact on me. But now in hindsight, I realized it was, and I was probably struggling more than I thought. And then, you know, you realize you come to, you know, you know, you're late fifties and you're still having hot flushes and you're still struggling a bit.
And of course, now the medical thinking has fully reversed and the medical profession is. Fully in support of HRT, the HRT is much more sophisticated than it was. There's a feeling, you know what, there's help out there. Don't struggle on, get the help you need at whatever level you need it. But talk to an expert.
It's wonderful to see these menopause clinics emerging around the place. where you can go and have a good chat about all your different symptoms and what it is you want to do in your life. Um, I think our GPs are wonderful, but sometimes they're very busy, they're very pressed and they don't have the specialist knowledge.
And I really do think we need to go to the menopause clinic who are specialists specifically trained to deal with this and to keep up to date with all of the helps and supports that are out there and available nowadays. So in that regard, when I say You know, my generation got it wrong. So many of the conversations I would have with my friends now are, have you gone on HRT?
Yes, eventually I did because you know what, it is so much better and it's there to be done. But I think the attitude thing is so important as well. And I think it's really, Behoves us as women to keep the side up and not to allow it overwhelm us. And, you know, look into what diet, what exercise, what, you know, things you need to do to support your sleep and all of that.
And I know I'm not being judgmental. I know some women find it very, very hard and your heart goes out to them. But I'm just saying, go and get help. Go and get help. Hmm. And I think that's so true, isn't it? Because like some of us may suffer with insomnia. We may have suffered with hot flushes, et cetera.
Others won't. So it's so individual and it's making sure that you get the right help for whatever challenging symptoms that you're having. And I think, yeah, like, as you said, I mean, the, the conversation around HRT. Has changed and I thankfully now there's better information. There's, um, more informed research and so forth.
And I think the important thing there again, yeah, it's that individual piece is so important because we all have such an individual experience of, of. of menopause. Um, uh, you know, and I think, yeah, the soul, soul to pop. I have, uh, I have heard that before, not in a good, not in a long time though. It's such an expression, isn't it?
Yeah. You know, but you know, it was just the way it kind of feels. To me, and it feels to some of our generation. And, you know, again, not faulting the medical practitioners we would have consulted at the time. It was probably the best available information at the time. But now we know that that has changed.
And I think every woman owes it to herself to go and get the best information, get the best support that's available to her to suit her individual needs. But I think overall, um, again, our understanding of menopause has to change. I think, again, 20, 30 years ago, it was as if menopause was. A period, it was menopause, a time, a timeframe, it happened, it started and then it ended.
Again now we know it doesn't, it is an ongoing thing, it is a continuum. And you know, you might have felt great five years ago, if you don't feel so good now, go and look for some support, because this is a continuum and it's not suddenly going to stop. And again, I think in terms of whatever medical supports might be available now, there's a And there's nothing to stop you continuing on those into your 70s into your 80s if that's what you want to do if it's feeling it's making you feel good and if it's working for you and I think we know that now and we know that it is not something that's going to go away.
I think our mother's generation. Um, would not have presented with menopause issues in their 60s or later because it was kind of all over. They were nearly dismissed. They were nearly, you know, pushed aside as whereas now we're fitter, we're healthier, we're better than we've ever been. And we want a quality of life going on much, much longer.
So therefore we have to go and seek it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, that analogy, menopause is, is, is, is a continuum. And I think I was doing a radio interview or a while ago. And, um, uh, the person, uh, interviewed me, he said, he said, I heard recently the menopause just last last three weeks. We had such a joke over this cause I was like, okay, I'm going to have to burst that bubble pretty quick.
Cause obviously, as you know, yourself, it isn't, I mean, you're talking about anywhere from four to 10 to 12 years. Based on the individual experience. And I think, yeah, definitely. I mean, I can remember my, when my own, when my mom was going through now, in hindsight, what I would know as menopause, I can certainly remember the hot flushes in the kitchen, but I would say she, there was no discussions then of kind of menopause and certainly, yeah, I look, I think.
We've made a lot of progress in terms of awareness. And I think that's where yeah, I think medical side is coming off those days. I think women quietly suffered in those days and it wasn't discussed and it wasn't out there. And I think it's very much a conversational piece. It's part of the life course.
It's perfectly natural. You know, it's funny, even looking at men and men now looking for testosterone support. life. Apparently it's the best kept secret in Hollywood for years that all of these actors we admire who still look like they looked, you know, popcorn mark two comes to mind. You know how many years ago?
And I mean, and the thing is, apparently they get testosterone support and it makes them feel better and why not? And if mentally, Things are available and they're safe and they're tested and they do give you the support you need. Well, why not? Yeah. And there is a male form of menopause, right? So that lies into what you're talking about with the testosterone.
We know the 25 percent of men will actually suffer as a result of testosterone decline. So that's where that replacement of testosterone comes in. I don't think it's only 25%. Well, I, I, I'm with you, I'm totally with you on that, unfortunately, the research today just tells us that, but yeah, I'm, I'm with you that I'm with you for sure.
And Orla, when we, when we talk about, you know, menopause and that whole, like, as you, as you said. We are all living longer and we all now want to be in our optimum health, like in our 70s, 80s and 90s. Do you find, and particularly in the work that you do, do you find that we still have, or there is this issue about The attitude in workplaces, but also, you know, across society in relation to ageing.
Because I would find that when we look at menopause, we have menopause like the taboo as it is, but we also have a much bigger part of the picture is the attitude towards ageing. Yeah, well, one of my biggest clients at the moment is Age Friendly Ireland. I'm the business consultant to Age Friendly for the last three years, so I do an awful lot of work and research in this area.
And it's absolutely fascinating when we look at how the demographic is aging right across the world. This is not only here in Ireland, it's right across the world. So there's about a million people in Ireland currently over the age of 60. That's going to have doubled by 2051. And that is down to much improved health care, our knowledge of diet and exercise, better housing, better transport, better medications, better surgical support.
All of these things are available. We're seeing a longevity never before experienced on this planet. So in about 10 years time, for the first time ever on this planet, there will physically be more people over the age of 60 Then there are under the age of 15. Imagine that all of the babies that in the world up to this point, there's always been a lot more babies born.
No, in 10 years time, it'll actually move that there will be more physically, more people over the age of 60 on the planet. It is extraordinary. I keep saying this is as big as climate change and we've got to make. Amendments to our whole, um, obviously our infrastructure and our health care and our housing and all of those things that the physical infrastructure, but we have also got to make amendments in our attitudes and in the way we embrace older people and in the way we change our workplaces to accommodate people, older people for longer.
So my own mom is 93 years old and I'm touching wood as I say that she's a force of nature. She still lives independently. She walks every day. Her friends out to lunch, you know, she's, and she raised seven of us. She's lived a really full life and that would not be unusual. Her mother would have died in her mid sixties.
And again, that would not have been unusual back in the day. Whereas now it is quite usual to see a lot more older people. And we can describe that as the bounty or the burden. You know, we can wring our hands and say, Oh, this is such a burden on the pension pot and on healthcare and on housing. we can just say, no, this is a huge bounty.
We see, we will keep all of these wonderful, precious people in our lives for so much longer. But also if you think of the tax take that they will actually contribute so vibrantly to the economy. If you think of the numbers of tubes of toothpaste, you're Going to consume between the age of 60 and 90, the amount of pairs of shoes you're going to buy, the, um, the holidays you're going to go on, the restaurants you're going to eat in.
Think of that as a tax take. And another thing we know about the older demographic, they actually control about 50 percent of all consumer spending. Which is just extraordinary. That's massive of all is controlled by the over over 50s. So this is all the reasons why we need to really value our older people.
So specifically for the work you do Catherine in terms of in the workplace. So Minister Heather Humphries announced some time back that there's going to be an optimum or an age retirement age of 70 increasing to 70. Not to be confused with the pension argument on what age to get the pension and we're seeing the marching in France about that.
No, this is the option of working longer if you so choose. If you're fit, you're well, you feel you have enough, a lot of knowledge and wisdom still to impart. And you want to work or indeed because you have to work because you haven't put your financial jobs in a row in order to allow yourself retire.
Shouldn't you have that option? Why should somebody at the peak of their game like. Think of RTE people well known, David Davenpower, Mary Kennedy, who famously had to retire at 65 because they reached a number and they felt they were at the peak of their game and could give so much more. And why are we being asked to retire at the age of 65, which was a retirement age chosen by none other than Bismarck.
Bismarck chose 65 after retirement age and the whole world followed suit. And in the 1920s in Ireland and the development of the state, 65 was just picked as a good age for retirement because that's what was prevalent in the U S and prevalent in Germany at the time. So we have to revise that because being 65 today is completely different to how it might've been, uh, 20, 30, 40 years ago.
So why are we still acting like it's the same? It's not. But as I said, the whole thing is the optional, the choice. I would hate somebody to have to work on if they didn't feel that's what they want. And some people, you know, are out the door, gone to the golf course at 60 years of age, happy out. They have their financial ducks in a row, as I say, but some people don't and they need to have that choice.
And if you love your job, like, when you talk about that, in my mind, all I can see is David Attenborough. Wouldn't it be a shame to the world over if David Attenborough had stopped working at the age of 65? Oh my gosh, think of what we'd have all lost. You know, and I think that's really what we have to look at.
I mean, I started by saying. I feel I'm at the peak of my game now in my early sixties, because I'm in the business of coaching and business development and supporting people and for wisdom or the few gray hairs or that knowledge built up over a long career is valued. And it is seen as a plus. It may not be the same in other industries where it's not seen as a plus that you hum this.
Leaned over many, many years and in some businesses, they may begin to kind of discredit you. They say there is a very much an institutional ageism that goes on in a lot of big corporations where, you know, somebody in their 50s is not given The interesting project because I, you know, they're kind of winding down or their, their name isn't put forward for promotion because, well, you know, they're probably winding down or indeed, you know, somebody approaches them, their line manager or somebody from HR and says, were you thinking of taking the package yourself?
Like that is not a conversation you should ever have with somebody. If there's a package being announced and they're hoping people We'll step up and volunteer to take early retirement. Believe me, those who want to will step up and take it. You never need to say to them, were you thinking of taking the package?
That is the most ageist thing you could do if somebody has not thought of it. It's not on the horizon yet. Why should you put it on there? A teacher friend of mine who's the. Uh, assistant principal in a very big school. And she is the most talented principal, assistant principal you could manage. She's a dynamic, dynamic lady.
And she had her 60th birthday recently. And the first thing the principal said to him was, were you thinking of going early? Were you thinking of taking retirement? It hadn't crossed her mind. She loves her job. Is brilliant. Why would somebody? Say to her, were you thinking of going early? She's no intention of going early.
So that ageism, it's like a corporate or institutional ageism that is really embedded. And when you, so, and I think you touched on a perfect example there of, you know, say that your friend, the principal at the age of 60, or even if we go back even before that, and we look say many women who went, as they're going through menopause, say even as they, he's peak menopause territory, kind of the early fifties onwards, you know, your fifties up to kind of sixties, they maybe love their job.
They may be really passionate about what they do. Now, at the same time, they could be struggling with Some menopause symptoms that they're trying to get a handle on at work. But I would see, and I would talk to many people who will, just as you said there, who will actually feel that maybe they're being sidelined or maybe that they're not being thought of.
As maybe the first person in relation to promotion and so forth. What can we do, do there Orla to try and support women and to encourage companies to understand that it's so important to support women through these years. Yeah, it is. I mentioned there to you earlier I was looking at your own LinkedIn profile and you have put on it for you say you're speaking directly to people in any one of these companies, and you're saying to them look if you want to have this conversation.
Bring it up with your line manager, bring it up with HR. Why don't they have somebody like you in to speak about these issues? Not only aiming that as women, aiming it at everybody, as in menopause is a very normal part of the life course. Everybody has to be aware of it. And it's like mental health. It's like general health and awareness and wellbeing.
It is just one of those things. And the conversations need to be had in the workplace. In my work, when I'm trying to look at ageism in the workplace, it's probably more general in the sense that. I want obviously everybody to look at this. It's a bit like ageism is the one ism that is still allowed, you know, for some reason.
Why? You know, we're so good in Ireland, particularly on LGBTQ issues, welcoming the new Irish. We've really tried to look at all the isms as a society. Society and do better, but it's like ageism is still allowed you go into a newsagent to buy a birthday card for somebody in their 60s or 70s, and all of the jokes on the card will be about gaining weight losing hair becoming forgetful.
And it's this trope of age that is based on what age might have been 30 years ago, not as it is today. In advertising, in film and television, we see a lot of ageism, everyday ageism. It's like there are minimal characters turning up in television and, and, um, film as if you stop being relevant when you get older.
And the one character that does turn up is usually the foil for the others. It's usually the characters to be lampooned. The character is to be made the joke. It's like the dad's army version of being older. And again, why is that? I did a presentation recently to the advertising industry and all of these.
And I was saying, you know, you have to reflect older people as they are today. Not as they were. You know, all those years ago and in the work I do with age friendly Ireland, we have done this age friendly business recognition program where we kind of award a charter to any business that will put some changes in place to show that they value and welcome the older customer.
And that's a great piece of work we've been doing over the last few years, but we're currently now developing a new program on the age friendly workplace, which will be a different ball game because it's fine for a company to say, Oh yes, we're going to be customer focused and we're going to be. Work on not being ageist towards our customers, but that's the very same cause business that could be saying to somebody today as we're sitting here, are you thinking of taking the package because they're 55 so we have to look at the age friendly workplace and what exactly does that mean?
Are we actually supporting older people and not being ageist towards them? Towards them as they reach 60 or 65. Are we encouraging them to stay on? Are we encouraging them to take up part time roles, maybe meant mentoring that all that wonderful knowledge in their heads does not walk out the door of that business at 65.
What a loss it is to the business. Instead of relaying all that knowledge before they go in a work friendly way, that might be part time. It might be mentoring. It might be coaching or whatever. So we have to look at all those things within the age friendly workplace. We've to look at actively recruiting older people.
There's a huge, um, there's a recruitment shortage at the moment. There's a shortage of good people out there. Why aren't we actively recruiting older people or do HR departments dismiss any CV that comes in on the intrate when they work out from the years they went to college or whatever, what age the person is, and are they just dismissed because they're older?
You know, that is bonkers. We're actually turning our back on a really fantastic cohort who may still Want to work, but they may want to work part time. They may want to work remotely. They may want to work flexibly. We've to look at all of that. And, and really the age friendly workplace program that we're developing is to actually actively ask employers to look at this.
Are you retaining? Are you recruiting older people? Are you supporting them? Right across the life course and right across the issues, be it menopause, be it mental health, be it physical support that somebody might need, be it accessibility, whatever it might be. That's that's really interesting. So just on a few points that I love the I love that you talk about the mentoring as one of the kind of the practical steps workplaces can can take us like that is if you look just I mean this goes for men and women, but if you look at the wisdom.
That anyone will have garnered by the time, you know, they're in their 50s and 60s. There's that, you can't, you can't put that into a Word document and send it to someone. You know, it's, it, that's not, um, easy, readily transferable. But it's, it's, that mentoring role can be, can be so powerful. And when you just mentioned about, do you think in terms of the, the active recruitment order, do you think?
Are we, is it, is it there that, and we're just not calling it out that there is a cutoff, um, limit that people are just kind of saying, okay, I'm going to move this CV to the side because I figured out an age, you know, do you think that still exists? I do. I absolutely do. I think there are a lot of recruiters are themselves young.
It's a very young industry. Okay. Um, I think. They probably need education around how to actually look at a CV in a fresh eye to meet the needs of the modern world, rather than those traditional, um, measures you would use whereby somebody you won't even consider somebody above a certain age. And I do believe that that actually happens.
And I know people try and disguise their age by not putting their age in or whatever, but then, as I said, their college years or something will give it. And they find they're not called and again, I'll give you an example of, of, of a good friend of mine who again is around the 60 mark. She's been in a role for the last 10 years in development, company development.
And she is again, brilliant at what she does. She is the most dynamic focused person with a wonderful career, all her life, um, right through marketing and, and upbringing. Through the ranks, you know, across the years. And she really feels she wants to leave this company because it has kind of changed. It's not the way it used to be.
And she would love a new role. And she's saying to me, but who's going to employ me? I'm 60 and I'm going, but you're brilliant. And you're so dynamic and she's fit. She ran the women's mini marathon there at the weekend. She's about to do a half marathon. She's as fit and as well as she's ever been in her life, but she's 60 and she really has this feeling.
I won't, I won't be taken seriously. It would be so hard for me to get another role. I'm like, you know, so therefore she's staying in a role that she's not happy in. She's done her time there. She wants to move on. And she feels no better. Hold on here now for a few more years because I won't get something else.
And I just think how wrong is that if we're. Limiting somebody by a number rather than looking at what they have to offer and making the judgment in terms of employment. And I, you would love to reach businesses with that message. Keep an open mind, recruit in a different way to how you've recruited before.
I said to you earlier that I'm lucky maybe in that coaching and mentoring being that bit older is probably a plus because it's seen as you have this knowledge in other areas. It's not. So for example, I gave a talk recently in LinkedIn and they have what they call the wisdom group. It's one of these employee engagement and support groups, and they call it the wisdom group.
And it's run by a very dynamic group of people at senior level within LinkedIn in Ireland. And their whole idea is we have to start talking about what happens to tech people because tech is such a young industry. And they have started their wisdom group for over the age of 45, which is very young to be starting in.
But they said they really wanted to get people early and to grow the knowledge and the information as the tech industry matures. So they really want to support their colleagues across LinkedIn, across the world who are 45 plus. And who may be in that industry are beginning to feel are people looking at me now and thinking I'm old hat because I'm 45.
And again, that's so young to even, but they decided to preempt it, which I thought was brilliant. And to call it the wisdom and to allow people all over the world link up together, support each other, talk about the knowledge they have and how they impart that knowledge to younger colleagues. and how they protect their roles and stay in their industry for as long as they want to.
And I thought it was brilliant. And I love speaking to them. They're a very, very good group. And a lot of other businesses could do that as well. I think. And they're being proactive because I think I spoke with them the same week as you were the week after about menopause. So you know, and that, so I think it really is.
This conversation being opened up and being part of the C suite agenda, you know, that senior management, etc. are talking about what are we doing on the ground in relation to ageism. But I do really, I do, I wholeheartedly agree, Orla, what you're saying in relation to the recruitment agencies though, because I have met women.
I have met women who have told me they've gone to recruitment agencies, they might be 52, 53, and they want to change their, their, their roles. And they have told me that they have been told it might take you a bit longer than, uh, than the normal. That's, that's, that's really hard to hear. When you're like, I'm 52, I'll be 53 in October.
I think if someone said that to me, I would be very much kind of like, hang on, hang on. Like, like you said, I've so much to offer. I want to work. Maybe I just want to change where I'm working. So, like, what can someone, if, if, you know, a woman is faced with that, what, what, is there anything you would say that you can do, a practical step that they can take?
Well, I think if any woman is listening to this and who is in that corporate environment, where feel She feels there's any edge towards her because she's a bit older or because she feels she's struggling a little bit with menopause herself and feels nobody understands nobody cares. I think the idea is to really bring in the speakers like you like me, bring them into the workplace and say let's facilitate and have this conversation.
And you would be amazed, you know, organize one of these events within, you know, the. Tuesday talking in the canteen or whatever they do in that that particular workplace, they'd be, I think she listening would be amazed at how many people would actually turn up. And as I said, if it's directed at all of the employees, this affects everybody.
It's not just women. It's not just men. It is how we handle aging within this organization. And the thing is, everybody is aging. Everybody is older. I always use this. The term older people when I'm talking, I hate the term elderly or, you know, aged or, you know, people really find those terms offensive. So use the term older.
Like if you're 25, you're older than somebody who's 20. If you're 45, it's 40. So it's not an offensive term. But if you were to even, Organized an event aimed at older people in the workplace, but to say to the younger people, come too, because you know what you're getting older as well. And you're going to have to learn about this stuff.
And you're going to have to protect your industry as you grow older as well. And suddenly in the, in the LinkedIn wisdom group, I remember them saying that they're saying, you know, we aimed this at over 45, but the next thing we have much younger people dropping in because they're just interested and they want to support their colleagues.
And they want to say. What is this? I need to know about this. And the work I would do with Age Friendly is very much about making people aware of the aging demographic and how, as I keep saying, it's coming at us like a train. It's as big as climate change. And every one of us has to do our bit to be aware of this and to see what changes we have to put in place in our own attitudes, first and foremost.
And then in terms of can we put physical changes in place in our businesses or in our retail outlets or wherever it is, our communities, our workplaces in order to make Ireland a great place in which to grow old. And that's kind of the aim. And that's nearly to starting like in schools too, isn't it?
Because it's trying to make sure that young people have that respect obviously for their grandparents, but then just across society that young people have that respect for people as they get older because like we are, as you say, we're all going to get older. There's a lovely intergenerational piece there.
I don't know what it is, but young people are so good with older people. It's distinctive, isn't it? It's lovely. Then Woody's doing some shopping, DIY shopping with my mother a few weeks back. And the young lad came up to help me and he was helpful and pleasant and what have you. And then when he saw my mother, The level of care just tripled.
He was falling over himself to help her. And I was standing back and looking at it and saying, isn't this so lovely? Obviously, she must have reminded him of his own grandmother or something. Yeah, his head on his head for. And I thought, how lovely. And that's just young people that do that, I think instinctively, which is.
Yeah, which is which is lovely. And I think it's just it's just making sure that. You that's cultivated all the way through that it isn't, it isn't lost. There's, um, when we, when we talk about menopause, you know, we often talk about like the wisdom of menopause. And often, if you look at it from a scientist's perspective, they will actually talk about the wisdom of the female whale and what happens in the pod of whales.
Once the female reaches menopause, she becomes the matriarch. She becomes the head of the pod. She'll bring them to the best feeding ground. She'll show them the migration routes. She'll look after the younger pod members. She's the wisdom. And I think like, and I often kind of think we don't have to go to the The, the, the animal kingdom for that.
We just have to bring it back to home and look at humans and look at the wisdom that men and women gain as they go through life and when they become older. And if you even think about it, like, you know, I, I can remember as a child, I was very lucky or I forced, I had my four grandparents up until I think my late teenage years.
But I can, you know, yourself, your. Parents say one thing, but if your grandparents say it, it's like, Oh yeah, you always listen to the grandparents, you know, but I think it's just under that wisdom piece is so important and also the respect with ageism. And, and with that wisdom piece and older woman, you're right.
There's a great strength in being older as well. You know, it's nearly like you're kind of through the messy childbearing years you're through. The struggles about your identity and who you are. It's a, it's a bit like the Maslow hierarchy. You know, you're at the top of the pyramid and you feel a great strength and you feel, you know, things don't bother you like they used to.
So another client I do a lot of work with is women for election and it's encouraging women obviously to go forward for the local authorities or the Dáil or the that we are. represented more fully than we currently are. There's only something like 24 percent female representation currently, and that just needs to change.
But working with these groups, and recently we worked with a group of 44 women who are exploring, uh, running for election, and they call it the equip program. And I was struck by the sort of the two extremes. There were very young women and there were mature women. And the mature women saying, you know, one of the things that holds or prevents women from going forward for election is things like childcare.
And you know, with social media being so hard on women, um, that they would be challenged by social media. And the older women saying, I'm sure I wouldn't care about that. They can say what they want about me. I wouldn't care. I'm going. That is it in a nutshell, you get to that point where I am who I am and you can like me or otherwise.
So a woman going forward for election at that point of her life is very strong. She knows what she believes in, knows what she stands for. You can take pot shots at her and you know what, it's fine. probably going to be water off a duck's back. And I loved seeing them. I loved seeing those older women and not thinking, Oh, it's too late.
If I wanted to go into politics, I should have done it when I was in my twenties or thirties. No, now in your fifties or sixties is the perfect time to do it because you've all the knowledge, all the wisdom, all the strength, all the resilience. It's wonderful. So I hope to see some of them elected. That's, that's, that's brilliant, isn't it?
And it's like you say about the, the, the social media side of it. I mean, my God, you could go down a rabbit hole with that, that you just, you'd never do anything as opposed to just, just embracing it. And that's another part or in relation to, so the marketing, because this is something I find, and obviously now menopause is a massive billion dollar industry across the world.
So the marketing of that, it has all. changing now as well, so that, you know, and ageism is brought into that a lot. You know, is that, do you think there's anything there that kind of can be done or, you know, is there anything being done in relation to that? Yeah, absolutely. And I think speaking of politics, I think we need good political leadership here because we are now talking about menopause.
There are people like you having this conversation. We're seeing the menopause clinics crop up. However, the cost of attending those clinics is quite high. And again, are we turning this into a middle class thing where middle class women can afford to go to a menopause clinic, but other women can't. This needs to be put onto the healthcare system that any woman can access a menopause clinic, not just those who have the money to do so or have the VHI to cover it.
Because again, it's such a natural, normal part of the life course. And by. Allowing a woman go to a menopause clinic by investing in her as, as, as part of the state, as part of society. We're freeing her up to achieve so much more and to be so much more because she gets that thing out of the way and moves on with her career, her life, all the choices she's going to make going forward.
We are empowering women hugely by allowing them get the support they need. And I really do believe we have to campaign to have that made accessible and affordable to all. Oh, big time. I mean, you know, like, we do know a lot of the community doctors, you know, in your regular surgery are upskilling to cover menopause, but it is so important because like, I would see, I see a lot in relation to the financial burden of menopause and the fact that.
For a lot of that, it can be just getting your script renewed. I've seen, I've seen the cost of script renewal. I've seen it go from 20 euros to 65 euros. And that's just for a script renewal, no appointment. You know, so there's a lot of costs there that are definitely, um, are definitely very challenging to people.
Are not dealt with. That is just another discrimination against women that here we are. We're talking about loads of things available, but you know what? We're actually going to discriminate against you again now by making it not affordable. That's just so wrong. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like you see, that's where whilst we've opened the conversation now we're into there's so many layers underneath that.
Still have to be brought up and like you say, still have to be dealt with because the discrimination part, particularly in women's health, it's still there on so many different levels. It's just kind of trying to, trying to tackle one thing at a time, you know, to, to, to make progress into it. But I think one area that I'm very, very aware of though, is the, the impact of age of women in the workplace and just how some like we know brain fog we know the impact and confidence does impact women and we know there's some of the top most challenging symptoms that women will say they experience in the workplace but I think when you compound that then and if you, if you're not in a workplace where you feel you're supported in, from an aging perspective and also from a menopause perspective, that's very difficult.
That puts you in a very difficult and what can be an isolating space where you don't feel you're supported. Yeah. And I think, um, there's an onus on the workplace. There's an onus on, um, whether it comes from line management, as I've said, if it comes from HR, where it comes from, or indeed one of these networks within the corporates, but there is a knownness to have the conversations, to allow people to have the support, to offer.
You know, you mentioned confidence, you know, it's very easy to offer a training program or a facilitated session on confidence and defining confidence. What is it? That's one of the sessions we do with the women for election as a starting point to running for election. It is defined confidence. What is it?
How do you find it? How do you work on it? How do you flex that particular muscle? And that's a lovely, lovely session. It will be so easy. For a company to provide that it's a couple of hours, put a group of women in it and they'll come out of it walking 10 feet tall and feeling able for the next piece and then enabling them to have the conversation around menopause and then to put those financial supports in place for them to access whatever medical support they need.
So it's it's a tiered or, as you say, a layered approach. Um, but there's so many ways a business, if they're serious about it, if they want to hold on to their female, their fantastic female workforce, it could be so easy to actually put a few of those supports in place. Yeah. And the fastest growing demographic too.
I mean, that's, we, we, you know, we know that like that's the perimenopause into menopause category. So to me, it's kind of, it's a no brainer, you know, but I certainly, I like when I, when, when I look at, you know, the aging aspect. of menopause. I just think we, we still, there was, there's still a lot of challenges there.
Now there's many celebrities that are coming out and they're being very authentic about, you know, maybe their hair color changing or just, you know, their fitness or their lifestyle. And I, I think, I think that is important, but I think also for the general You know, for each of us on the street, it's not going to be the same lifestyle as what a celebrity is is having.
But I guess I hope that starts to drill down so that we start to look at aging beautifully, aging positively and beautifully. I mean, you know, internally, externally, everything just that you are kind of, you know, it's optimum health and you have those opportunities to look after yourself. I just think that that part of it is So important for, for women, I feel.
Yeah, I think it is. And it is celebrating every year as a plus, because you know what there is many of us who didn't make it to this point. And, you know, if you, if you, if you think about that, the friends you had, the schoolmates, the women you worked with a number of years back, the neighbors, the friends who are no longer with us.
I mean, and then you wake up in the morning and you look at the mirror and you say, you know what, I'm doing just great. I'm still here. And it's so much to offer and life is good and it's to really find ways of accessing that and, you know, dealing with whatever symptoms of menopause you have with, you know, exercise, diet, try and manage it, you know, getting out in the fresh air, taking a walk, you know, pacing yourself at your work, you know, productivity is another area where.
Can be a lot of help for people because people think if they're not working flat out, they're not productive, but you can be a lot more productive when you take breaks and you pace it. And again, that's a very simple one for a company to offer, you know, productivity again, with remote working and homeworking and hybrid working and taking the plus out of COVID.
And there are so many pluses that come out of COVID if you look at them. And one of them was that. Thing of actually working in a more hybrid way. And a lot of people are, are looking really to hold on to that and not to return fully to the office. It's fine to return one or two days a week, but you know, the commute causes such an impact on the planet apart from anything else.
And wear and tear and you know women doing the second shift doing a day's work and then doing the second shift at home with the kids in the house and all of that. And you know if we can find ways of hybrid working and again employers can support people with that retain them for longer we've seen the lowest ever unemployment in the history of 3.
7 percent or something we saw that there last week. So it behooves employers to retain people. More to recruit something new. Hold on to the good people you have by giving them a working day that works for them, which is if it's part remote or it's hybrid or whatever and trusting your employer, employee to do the work from home.
Again, throughout COVID, I think an awful lot of people proved that they could work really, really well. I love a lot of people said they work much better at home than they did. Because they got more done. So, you know, it's, it's those things employers have to look at in order to hold on to and value those women who are going to be with, I mean, there was a time when women retired after they had a couple of kids.
They don't anymore. They're there for the long haul. And it's even looking at maternity. Maternity is just a phase in a long career and the employer who has a less than positive attitude towards it can impact very badly on that woman. You know, there's all sorts of science around, uh, the way a woman tells her employer she's pregnant.
And that first response from that employer. It can actually contribute to how she perceives her career and how long she will stay in that business. Wow, that's very interesting isn't it? That moment where an employee says, I'm pregnant. And the response in that moment, if that response is wonderful, happy for you sit down and we'll talk it through and we'll work out the dates and what have you, what have you, if it's that positive response, that woman will stay much longer in her career.
But the woman who gets a negative response as an off God's sake, or here we go again, I suppose we want to talk about this, or if there's any negativity there. That really impacts on the career choices that woman makes. And that was a study that came out of DCU a few years back. It was a fascinating read, a fascinating read.
Some, um, some young, uh, doctorate students in, in, uh, DCU did this survey on maternity and, and responses to it. It makes sense though, doesn't it? And just one key, one thing you touched on there, Orla, which I think is really powerful. I think yet COVID has been a game changer. I think now the struggles that we have, or the workplaces have, it's one deciding what their hybrids are.
Uh, workspace is going to look like, but I think a struggle within that then is bringing the managers, bringing those line managers along that they are actually really supportive of it. And like you said, that they're trusting their employees, that they're able to do their job as effectively, if not more effectively at home.
Like I would have known. Um, from some of the companies that, that I've worked with myself personally in, in my past career. The, the thought of working at home wasn't up for discussion. It wasn't ever on the table. And COVID has flipped all of that. But I think a really integral part of that for workplaces is that all of the managers are wholeheartedly on board.
Because if they're not, you're either going to lose, um, experience. You know, highly experienced staff, or it's, you're going to have breaks along the chain at some point, you know. Well, anecdotally, you'd be hearing, as I would, I'm sure, I'm sure you're hearing too, that a lot of businesses are calling people back in, they really want them back.
And, and why is that? Is it just because it's presenteeism? Is it, you know, do we just, I mean, really, do you need people every day? You probably don't. You probably need them once a week to kick off, to have those meetings, to assign the workload, whatever it might be. But do you need them there every day? You absolutely don't.
And yet some businesses are hauling people back in. And I think it is very short sighted. I think it is going to cause them to lose good people who, as you said, Throughout COVID got in the habit of working a particular way, proved they could do it, had no loss of productivity. And yet you're going to have businesses pulling them back in.
Why? Just because it seems to be what a manager wants or somebody organizing it wants. Whereas I think the companies that are farsighted about this and to really work to hold onto the gains that have been made, I think the reward for them will be in committed, long term, good employees, many of them female, who actually deliver and deliver extremely well.
Yeah, no, I think that's, that's the key, isn't it? It is. It's, it's having the long term lens on. Um, Orla, thanks so much. That was a fantastic conversation. And I think, you know, it's so important that for all of us, uh, you're obviously in, in, in this space every day, just like I am in the menopause space and obviously menopause and aging, they're very closely, uh, twin together.
But I think for others, aging is maybe something we don't think about. So hopefully for, anyone that's listening, it may just start you to, to think a little bit differently in terms of, you know, how we work with, um, people, our work colleagues that are maybe older and, you know, how we are promoting, uh, a society that is being a socially responsible citizen by being supportive of ageism.
Yeah, well, I'm always very happy to go and talk to people on this subject, um, on behalf So, if any of your listeners want to, uh, to organize that, please reach out to me. I'd be delighted to do that. Brilliant. And Orla, I'll put, I'll put all your contact details in the show notes as well. So everyone can contact you if they need to.
And thanks so much Orla and thanks, everybody. Thanks everybody for listening. I hope you enjoyed the session and I will be back again soon. Again, soon with our next episode. Thank you.
Thank you for listening to Menopause Uprising with me, your host, Catherine O'Keefe. I really hope you enjoyed this week's episode. Don't forget to like, subscribe, rate and review as it really helps the show.
