Feeling Fabulous in Menopause

Today on the Menopause Uprising Podcast we have my good friend, Aoife Dunican known as "The Style Bob" on Instagram. Aoife set up her styling business in August 2020 having spent nearly 15 years working in marketing including a great stint in the people department for a global professional services firm which gave her an excellent insight into how men and women tell their stories. Aoife has always been intrigued at what makes people confident and the role our image and clothes plays in this.

Have you ever had a special pair of shoes when you were a kid that made you feel 'Fabulous?' Our conversation today is all about bringing fabulous back into our wardrobe and how important it is for us to be wearing clothes that fit our body type. Sometimes we can lose our way in menopause regarding our style and settle for the 'handy' option, but this doesn't have to be the case! Today on the Menopause Uprising Podcast Aoife shares some valuable ways we can feel fabulous again! Enjoy!

You can find more about what Aofie does HERE and give her a follow on Instagram HERE

Uniglo HERE

Transcript -Automatically Generated
Welcome to Menopause Uprising with me, your host, Catherine O'Keeffe. Today, I think you're going to love this conversation. I was joined by my friend Aoife Donegan, also known as The Style Bob. We talk about buying red shoes in Harrods. The invisible cloak that can fall on many of us as we go through the perimenopause, menopause years, and how important it is to find that girl again as we go through these years.

I hope you enjoy this session and please do leave a review or any comments below in the notes. Thank you. Aoife, thanks so much for coming in and thrilled to have you on Menopause Uprising. When I was around the age of We used to go on camping holidays to the UK or France or wherever. And on one holiday, we happened to be bringing a trailer caravan through the streets of London, which as you do, could you imagine doing that?

These, these days wouldn't happen. But anyway, my father was a bit maverick in his, uh, driving and so forth, but anyway, we ended up going to the Harrods sale. I'd never been tired in my life. I was, I was about eight years old and my dad brought me up to the kids department and I saw these red pair of shoes with a little heel and this beautiful strap.

And my dad bought them for me in the sale. I couldn't even tell you now at what price they were in today's money. But Aoife, I put the shoes on. Every time I got out of the car, the shoes had to come off because I didn't want the shoes to get dirty. I didn't want them to get marked. I had those shoes for years.

My mum, my dad always said, my mum was like Imelda Marcus because she had so many shoes. And all through my life. I have loved shoes and that stayed with me from, I think my father put that seed there and he himself was probably very conscious and liked clothes, but your passion for clothes very much came from your family background as well, didn't it?

In your childhood. Yeah. And I'm just, I'm, I'm loving listening to that, um, memory, Catherine, because I remember. Going to buy my own Holy Communion shoes back in 1979 and at the time we traveled from Westmeath up to Graham's, you know, shoe shop, we took the number and I found these black patent shoes, a bit like that moment of you finding the red shoes.

And there were 16 pounds at the time, which was massive money. And I'm from a farming family. So, you know, we only got paid when we sold cows, um, or sheep. So I was hoping we'd sold a lot of sheep that day. And, um, but I remember just my mother's memory actually is where. She agreed to buy them for me. I started that cost per wear malarkey back then saying, mom, I know they're not white, but I will wear these, um, forever black patent.

And she said that I brought them up to the cash register and I wouldn't let them out of my sight because I was afraid somebody else would take them. And I did wear them for two years, but my, my memory, I was, I was very lucky, I'm the youngest of seven. And craftsmanship. Um, and clothes were always a massive part of my upbringing.

My mother had a fabulous sister, um, and they made clothes all their lives. And I was always, I suppose, used to this incredible standard of taffeta dresses with hoops. And, uh, my sister went to New York, gosh, back in the eighties when there was no jobs and she was sending me home these amazing creations and, you know, my father, uh, bought me kind of mad fake fur coats.

And actually one story I remember very well is when my sister got married in 81. She was obsessed with Lady Diana as they all were back then. And I'm sorry, I was 83 and my sister more or less replicated her dress and made us all the bridesmaids dress, the going away dress, did the cake. So I was always used to this ridiculous, I suppose, standard of, I mean, everything.

I mean, the night before. You know, our, our life actually was funny because we were heavily involved in activities. So we planned our social diary and what we'd wear. So it was everything from the ploughing match, uh, the queen of the, the, the, you know, the plough ball to the, you know, Quebec and races, um, to the Corpus Christi procession.

That was very important. Uh, so we, we kind of staged our lives around, uh, events and what we would wear. And I suppose I was lucky that. The craftsmanship and skills my sisters had, um, they taught me about cut, about pattern, and I suppose the presence of clothes. I was very lucky to have that probably all my life.

And even my, you know, in my teenage years, my sister used to send parcels home from the States and everything of, you know, clothes we never had to hear like Esprit and Tommy Hilfiger and all those things. So I was just always used to wonderful craftsmanship. And I think myself and my family, we always got massive.

joy out of clothes. That was, that was really important to us. And a bit like that red shoe moment. I had lots of those growing up and they still bring great joy even thinking about them today. And it probably is. Why I do what I do because I saw the, the, the joys. I always say sometimes we're always looking to find the girl again.

Um, and sometimes when I'm with older women, they say, Oh God, I can't be wearing red shoes. Of course you can because actually we can replicate that girl. Different stages of our lives all the time. Um, so you, the red shoe moment, I had the black patent moment. I did have black patent moment too, because there is picture of me as I would most have been only about two and I had black patent shoes with.

It's gold buckles. Obviously my parents had something about shoes, but it's funny, but I, do you know, I, neither of those shoes, we don't have them anymore, but I would, I'd love to have them because it was such a moment. But my dad probably, I think very similar to yours in terms of, you know, coming up with that craftsmanship.

It was very much by one thing. Yes. But. Let it be one thing that is good quality that you love. And I think that was kind of treaded probably very much throughout many aspects of, um, you know, my life growing up and so forth, you know? And I think, isn't that the, one of the beauties of clothes is that. You know, I could get up and I could put on a pair of, you know, leggings, sweaty beddy, whatever they are, or you could put on a dress and you're going to feel so different depending on the outfit, the outfit that you put on you.

Well, what I say every day is, is, is what I wear dictates how I'll interact with the world and how the world will interact with me. So, you know, obviously I'm, I'm very bright this morning. And for a number of reasons, I'm coming to see you and my, my Leaving, certain guy was leaving this morning, God love him to do Irish too.

And, um, I think I need to be bright and cheery for that one. But it, it really does, because, um, I actually feel, you know, it's, it's, it's a bigger piece here, but it does start with how you want to feel. I mean, the first impression piece we will talk about and all that. I feel more in control if I start my day with who, you know, who am I meeting today?

How do I want to feel in my clothes? What impression do I want to make? Okay. Bye. But there's certain clothes I have, and I know you have them too in your wardrobe, Catherine, that you put on to feel a certain way. And it's amazing when you put them on, the body changes, you become more upright because it's very important.

You know, you and I both are, are, are speakers, uh, to have that sense of projection and there are certain clothes, for example, you know, I, uh, Um, like to present in a jacket because I feel it's great structure and shape. Uh, I also have to worry about sweat marks, which we will I'm sure talk about. Um, and I feel it kind of hides that, but it puts me in that zone of I'm in control.

I feel powerful. And there's so many things that can take our power away and that we have no control of. So clothes are something that we can have control of no matter what shape or size that we are. We can decide every day because you've got to get dressed every day. What can I put on myself today? To make me feel, uh, powerful.

I mean, I'm hearing crazy colors of, um, pink and orange. Yeah. Beautiful colors. I got lots of smiles in the Lewis today. Um, that's the interesting thing, I suppose, about, about color, cause it is that, that communication piece. But it's just that, you know, for me, uh, I wanted to feel cheerful today and positive.

And I decided that today and I made it happen. And that's, that's what's really important. And when you mentioned there, you know, there's so many things that can take our power away. One big one is menopause, right? Because as you go through perimenopause, menopause, you definitely, there's a little bit of, there's There's a change.

There's, you know, you change how you interact with the world. You change as a person. And there is particularly, I think at work where you can feel, you know, your confidence takes a hit, your self esteem takes a hit and that's power and that power, you know, shifts. And that's just so difficult because. You know, I know menopause happens in many stages, but there is that waking up one morning and you look in the mirror and you go, Oh my God, uh, this can be an overnight thing.

It's a bit like just aging in general. And I think what happens certainly with a lot of people, what I've seen. So I'm, I was saying to you, you know, I'm at that, that Perry stage, but I work with a lot of women in, in menopause and women who are working as well. And what I say to them is the first, so the first thing I've seen what they want to do is put on an invisible cloak.

And when we get older, whether we're menopausal or not, we cannot afford. to put on Invisible Cloak. We are living a lot longer, I suppose, than our mothers. We are, you know, even starting education later in our life. We're changing careers. We're doing all those things. We're having, you know, a second life after our children are going up.

So, that's where the Invisible Cloak has to become the 100 percent Invisible Cloak. And again, It's to be visible to yourself. If you look in that mirror and say, I actually can't see myself. The problem is the world won't see you either. And I had an experience of, I went back to work in my early to mid forties with the global professional service services firm.

And you can imagine Catherine, I've been home with the children for, you know, for seven or eight years. They were small at the time. And I'm walking through the door that morning and I'm absolutely terrified. It was also the first day of their school holidays. The timing was, was pretty awful. Um, and I had not got a clue.

And I remember, That first day, the photocopier was broken and I kicked it. And someone said to me, you call IT. Okay, back, back in our time, uh, you kicked it and it worked. So it was, everything had changed. That, that's obviously just a, you know, something, a little analogy there. Everything had changed. But the interesting thing is that I had to look different than I looked 15 years previous because the world had changed and I needed to look like my thoughts had gone with the world.

I couldn't have gone back in my old marketing clothes, even if they still fitted me, because I needed to look like my mind had progressed. And my clothes are very much part of that. And I remember just. Pudding looking in the mirror that morning going, okay, uh, you actually, um, look okay. Um, I was wearing something, I'm being colorful at the time.

You look like you belong to a professional services firm, even though you're kicking photocopiers when you go into the door. Um, and interesting, that was a terrifying week for me. Um, but at the end of the week, this girl said to me on the Lewis actually in the way home was in my department said, you know, what, um, how was your first week?

I said, awful. I really hadn't a clue. And she goes, I said, look, I haven't worked in seven years. She goes, Oh my God, I would never have thought that about you. So it's amazing how the clothes put that air of confidence around me and the perception of others towards me. So that's even more important. As we get older in the workplace, because we've lots of fabulous young people coming up, um, behind us.

Not say they're looking for a job or anything like that, but we need to keep relevant and modern. The world is, if you think about the workplace now, it was in my time changing every five years. It's now every six months. And I know women that I work with, they would say to me, you know, especially in their, maybe, Mid fifties, they'd say, look, I don't want to look really, I don't want to look like I've become really trendy all of a sudden, but I do want to feel modern.

That's the word. If there's one word I ask women to, to zone in on all the time, for me, my words are relevant, modern and visible and in the workplace. That is just so important and clothes can be really part of that, because for me, the relevancy and the clothes I was wearing back then, because I was with people, Catherine in the room that were 10, 15 years younger than me.

And I didn't want to say it was that kind of, not that you're old at 43, 44, but what would she know? Well, actually, yes, I know a lot. And the wonderful thing about getting older is that our wisdom accumulates. Which is fantastic, but our clothes should reflect that. Yeah. Yeah. And if you look at it, the fastest growing demographic in the workplace is actually women who are perimenopause into menopause, starting post menopause.

So that 45 to 55, 60 age group. And we, we also know that like the majority of women, They want to stay working when they're in a job that they're happy, they're enjoying their career, et cetera. So, you know, this is where I just think it, this is so important because like, I know from my own experience when I was started perimenopause, I mean, like you, well, I'm still in perimenopause, geez, I don't know when this is.

This fun is going to stop. But I mean, like I started 44. I'm 52 now. And so I reckon I must be, it must be going to happen in the next 12 months. That's depressing Catherine, I'm in it and you're telling me I have another. Well, you see, that's what I was doing a radio interview recently. And, um, the guy said to me on the radio, he said, Catherine, I heard that menopause just lasts three weeks.

I was kind of like, uh, no. No, it's not, uh, it's not that lucky, but you know, but, but then I always say, look, it doesn't mean you're going to have symptoms. You can't just go through it and you don't have symptoms like we know 25 percent of women don't have symptoms. But one thing I would definitely have said, and particularly I found the early perimenopause years more challenging, and I definitely found in those years, I would say if you looked at my shoe collection, I'd say I bought no shoes.

That's unusual for you. Extremely. Extremely. Because I would just say I kind of lost interest. And I think, but that was all part of the shift that was happening. And I think if I was to go back then, I guarantee you, I'd say the majority of my clothes were probably a lot darker in colour. And that was just for whatever, where I was at, and maybe just going back.

Coming through, whereas I know now through everything I've learned from you. I mean, I love color. I absolutely love color. And I think it's that vibrancy. And, and, you know, definitely I've looked at, um, clothes and shops and I've kind of, Oh God, I'm not looking at that because I'm in my fifties. I can't look at that.

Whereas that mindset has changed for me. Interesting thing, I suppose, around, um, The color piece because it is part of that visible cloak as opposed to the invisible cloak and Color comes in kind of, you know, we I've talked in length but about color various things, but there's two things I want to say about as we get older is first of all from How it affects you physically is that the color?

As we get older, you know, we get more pigmentation in the skin and certainly if we've been through any trauma, like any chemotherapy or anything like that, we can get grayness in the skin. I know menopause changes everything. So it's really important that we wear colors that suit us for a start. Um, so for example, you know, Black isn't my best color.

Am I, you know, I'm not going to ever tell a woman, uh, black's not her best color because I think I'd, I'd definitely send her into therapy with that one because we, we all love her black, but I know that I want to wear colors close to my face that are really good for my skin tone. So for example, you know, someone says, Oh, you can't wear red because of hot flushes or something like that.

But actually you can wear red with a bit of yellow in it, which is more a corally color. So that's not going to totally, um, kind of make your skin go more red if you have rosacea or something like that. But getting those colors up close to your face, that your eyes pop, the lights in your hair come out, especially if women decide, and it's their own decision, that they want to go gray as they go older, that's for really strong colors.

are very important when it comes to the whole psychology piece. I hear a lot of women say to me, God, if I couldn't do that, am I not too old for that? And, you know, if you, if you think certainly I know myself, Catherine, when I go overseas, it's actually women in their fifties and sixties. I look to more for sartorial, I suppose, inspiration because At that stage, we've let a lot of our crap go, you know, I mean, we were kind of there going, you know what, if she can wear that, I can wear that.

We've gone through, if you think about how much you've gone through in our life at that stage and we're ready to say, look, if I don't do it now, I'll never do it. So I love looking at their confidence and you can see that they were not possibly always like this, but they're now, you know, like if you think of Iris that fell, I know is one extreme.

Um, a lady knows I'm just wearing all these flamboyant colors, but they've kind of let go and they're ready to do it. So having the colors that suit you, if you do want to wear a lot of black, and of course we'd never take a lot of people's wardrobe, don't be in black to hide, because a lot of people will, will be in black for two reasons, to hide and they think it's slimmer.

Whereas if you were the one color, the whole way up there, The body in similar tones, it's such an elongating effect. So like, again, when I was in, in, um, France and Italy last year, I'm looking at the women in their fifties and sixties, they're all in fabulous shades of neutrals, but all in tonality the whole way up.

So someone said to me, Oh God, if I can't wear the dreaded white jeans, um, the jokers, the cauliflower bum, uh, of course you can wear white jeans, but I've never heard of cauliflower bum. My, my friend has, um, yeah, she's definitely painting that expression. Uh, but if you, you can wear white jeans, if you decide to get something with a thicker fabric and maybe wear it with a similar shade on top, like an off white or maybe a camel or an off gray and a cream, because you create that fabulous lengthening effect.

So I'm looking at all the Europeans and their neutrals, I'm never looking at their body type, actually. I'm looking at a beautiful flow. And Harmony, I don't know if you ever noticed that with the ladies. They could have all their neutrals, lovely, lots of, lots of fabulous goals. So wearing it could be pink the whole way up.

It could be red. People think it has to be black to create that slimming effect the whole way up with that elongation in color. The other piece about color is a psychology, because We see color in wavelengths of light. The stronger colors holds our attention for longer. So like the reds, the pinks, the oranges, they have a long wavelength of light.

So when I need to kick myself into place, like here, I'm wearing all the bright colors, I need energy to do this podcast today. And if I wanted to have, if you and I were talking about something a bit more serious, uh, I probably would have chosen the more calming colors of blue and green. But those. Big, strong colors are wonderful for confidence.

So if I've to stand up, um, especially over lockdown, I was doing a lot of zooms and I wore my little red top because if you, I'm reduced to a little postage stamp on lockdown. So I need to wear a strong color to keep attention. So in the workplace, for example, I'm not saying you go around like Joseph in the Technicolor Dreamcoat, but I would have some ladies who would have traditionally worn, um, Navy suits and they're like the Navy suits.

Why color necklace on and we might put an interesting shoe on. So that color piece is to actually show a little bit of innovation is to show a bit of visibility. And it's just wonderful that bright colors can have that amazing, um, visible effect on us and also would put pull us into action. Sometimes I'm scrubbing the house at home.

I'll actually put on a red top yet after a webinar, I changed into blue or green because blue and green. The calming colors. They're a short wavelength of light. Very easy on the nervous system. Look, if I go down to Sandy Mountain this morning, or I go down to Herbert Park, I'll immediately feel calm. It's that nature effect.

I mean, it's just wonderful. So when I get off webinar and I've had to be up for an hour and full of energy, I'm I actually kind of rip off that red top because I just need to now come into a calmer place. So in the workplace, for example, if you were doing, um, you know, let's say a review with somebody and the review might not be the most positive in the world, uh, you might wear blue because it's a, it's a really good color of trust, color, and communication.

If you're going for an interview to stand up in front of a crowd, you might wear a little bit of red. Just to show the enthusiasm and energy in your voice, but I'd love older women to look at color that it's not all about black. Of course, we all wear black. We're never going to take it out of our wardrobes, but can they look at it in such a way to make it maybe a little bit more interesting or can they try a little bit of color, even if it's in a scarf, because I can tell you color is communication.

When I go to Tesco's over lockdown in my black hoodie, black leggings, really what I'm saying to the outside world is, I'm not ready for the chat today. Yeah. And that's okay. We can't be up all the time. Um, but you know, if, if, if, if we want to change ourselves out of a zone, it's good to look at how color can do that and certainly how I use it every single day.

I, I, I actually find it, I actually find it makes shopping a bit easier when I can just look at black or I'm not going there now cause I don't look at black anymore. And now I just go for the color and all of a sudden it means, you know, there's a few racks there that you can just like. Okay, don't have to bother with those.

So it makes it a bit easier, but I definitely think I, I mean, I so agree with everything, your whole ethos Aoife because I've seen it myself, how using different colors and just changing the clothes that I would wear, um, you know, either when I'm working or at home and just the color, I just love color.

And particularly it's like, as you know, I love going up the mountains, hiking and all of that, and it's the green, the cams. It's so important. You know, the sea, the blue, you know. And also I suppose just to say there, Catherine, when I do color analysis, it's really important for women to know what colors just make them look really tired and exhausted.

So for me, it's not like I'm always going out choosing my perfect color. I just know pastels make me milky and white, but beautiful and very pale blondes, so fabulous on them. I know all those gorgeous autumn colors. You know, that look wonderful, all the, the khakis and the, the creams and the, the, um, orange and terracotta, they're wonderful and extremely warm skin tone, but I'd have to work too hard.

So when it comes to shopping, I'm pretty quick, you know, I'll avoid that rail of brands and creams because I know it's not going to work or I have to fake tan myself for about 20 hours. You know. How do, how do we, how do women know that? How do you figure out? What color is going to work for you? So, I mean, we've, we've two types of skin tone.

We've, we've cool and warm. The cool skin tone is quite obvious in a way. If I was to use, let's say, a star would be kind of Angelina Jolie, Nigella Lawson. That very strong contrast of dark hair to skin. Right. You could say in a way, because of my darker hair and my, my pale skin, that I would have a cool skin tone.

But in fact, I have a rosy cheek and I do tan in summer. So I'm not particularly cool. Those kinds of people, um, they look, because they've got no, I suppose, they don't blush. They're very, very pale. They can take what I call the Dulux heritage color card, the magenta, the fuchsias, the absolute bright reds, the blacks, the really dark navies.

They can take like that royal blue really, really well, right? What happens is, is that when they put color up to the skin tone, so I'll go back to that original question in a minute. They don't have lines, they don't show up or we get those lines under our nose either side. There's doesn't show up any grayness in the skin.

So they can command that strong color of fuchsia. The other cool skin tone is your, um, And Nordic person, very pale blonde. If they wear a strong color catheter, it overpowers them, but they look fabulous in pastels, pale blonde, dust and tan, you know, in a mint green and a sky blue looks absolutely gorgeous.

The warm skin tone, two types. You've got your, I suppose you could say. red hair, brunette, blushes, um, clear blue eye. What looks wonderful in the colors of spring, the emerald greens, the aqua blues, the coral reds. And then the other warm skin tone, the Italians that take a very, like a yellow in their skin tone.

They are wonderful in all those dirty colors of autumn. Now, how we know is the first way to classify whether we're cool or warm skin tone. And if you take a tan or have probably red hair, freckles or something like that, you would be considered to have a warm skin tone that you can take pretty much clear and bright colors.

If you have that dark, dark hair, probably blue veins. very pale, never take a color, heavy, strong, heavy contrast to hair and eye. That's very cool. But the simplest way to do it is stand there in the morning time with no makeup on, with light up, you know, make sure you've got a light up onto your face. And you would, I always start off with people see what, um, white looks on you versus off white.

Okay. So pure white actually is a very hard color for a lot of people to wear. The, the person who's that cold, cold, um, skin color, very pale and black actually wears white beautifully. When I put white right up against my skin, I go really pale. There's a cast that goes right up into my face. So if I want to wear it, I have to wear it in a shirt, I have to kind of wear the neck open a bit.

Okay. So your skin. Yeah. Yeah. A necklace in. When you put off white against your skin. I certainly know for me with having a warm skin tone, everything just, I don't have that veil of white that goes up to the skin. Look at pastels. Do pastels make you pasty? They make me pasty, like a pale pink. Uh, I feel like funny when I come back from training in London, when I, when I studied in London College of Style.

I look to this pale pink top that cost me a lot of money. And I said, how come it never goes out the door? I was so, you know, when you have to grab the bronzer 10 times. Okay. Yeah. Way too pasty. So I know, okay, the really pale colors suit the cool skin tone, like the blondes. And then I'll put up, um, blacks and navies.

If I put up black against my face and I see that any shadows we have under our eyes gets more pronounced. If I see any redness gets more redder, like if you put up burgundy against somebody's face that suffers from rosacea or red, it'll inflame. Yeah. It'll absolutely inflame. What you should see. Is no shadows, a lovely calm skin tone and the eyes should just come out really bright.

Like Emerald Green for example would bring a lovely warm skin tone out. Is that hard to do with the lighting in shops these days? Or does it make it easier? It's shocking. I mean, and especially, you know, if you shop at 5. 30 in the Saturday evening, you've got to be something at 6. Um, the lighting makes it really difficult.

But if that's why you're better off knowing, you know, The way I look at color analysis for me is that I look at what I know is going to make me crap, because if I know, if I buy it, I won't wear it, Catherine. So I know if I quick flick on the rail of pastels, don't go there. A thousand euro down to five euro, I might consider it.

I'll put on a statement necklace with it. But I know not to go there. I know when I see the browns and creams and khakis, I say, you know what? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that khaki. It has to be in a skirt. It can't be right under my face. But the lighting in shops is awful. But if you know beforehand what you roughly are, then it's much easier.

Okay. Yeah. And because people end up with, and that's the downside of Instagram. I know we were both on it. It's very important for business, but people buy what looks good on others. And then it doesn't look good on them. And that's a massive issue because I'm seeing people's words at the moment. It's a lot of stuff that they bought because it looks good on somebody else.

And we should, you know, praise our wonderful individual selves because that's what we are. Yeah. So yeah, it's getting to know those colors. And then if you, once you get to know those colors, and if we go back to one of, I did a menopause in the workplace survey, um, back in 2021, I think, or 22, but the top five symptoms that women.

Reporters impacting with work. One was brain fog. No surprise. Number two was anxiety. Number three was the impact on confidence. And we know the anxiety is an impact on confidence and self esteem. And I think that's where, if you can just one, I guess, step towards helping yourself as you go through perimenopause all the way and into postmenopause is looking at what are the little steps that I can do that will help.

Start to, you know, get that confidence back so that, you know, because, you know, ideally you want to get, look at your management options, get a handle on the brain fog, you know, any other symptoms that are there. But it's then just trying to do the practical steps that you know will help your confidence.

So let's say for example, you are experiencing, let's say it's brain fog, let's say it's hot, hot flushes. Well, then your clothes will be a step towards helping. If, if it's brain fog, maybe you're going to wear something that's going to make you feel more pep in your step, more confidence. If it's hot flushes, you are going to look at what you're going to wear in terms of, like you mentioned earlier, you wear a jacket because of, you know, sweat patches.

You know, so the whole thing is, you know, that number three, that confidence piece, we all know confidence is a real layering process. There's so many things that go in to making us confident. And the reason why the close part of that layer, I suppose, is so important is because it is the first thing we see.

And it's the first thing somebody And I think what happens with women sometimes with the clothes, and this is tied into brain fog, is that they just go, Oh God, I don't know where to start. I'm overwhelmed. I go into the shop, and what happens is, they buy a pair of leggings. And, and before we get to that leggings decision, what we also tend to forget is that decision making is a part of brain fog.

So it's like, I'm going to go for the leggings because I know they'll fit. I've been wearing them through COVID for the last three years. Yeah. Or you, you all of a sudden, okay, well, I've sorted the decision making part is out. Or the worst thing is actually that top is great. Do you have it in 10 other colors?

God, I've done that. Not 10. Yeah. Yeah. But you know what I'm saying? Because all of a sudden, so what happens with that brain fog is I think you've to, you've to kind of acknowledge it. It's there. And you have to really simplify the clothing process, right? Because if you think about waking up in the morning, you have a lot of decisions to make.

Okay. From what you're going to eat to how you're going to get to work to whatever it is. You've got to simplify that clothing process because what happens is what I hear all the time is I have a wardrobe full of clothes, but I have nothing to wear. Yeah. So what happens in that situation is that people close the wardrobe.

They almost want to put a hammer in it and they go out and they buy more stuff because they kind of go, Oh, there's nothing in there and they walk away and it all just, what happens is that. It. It creates more brain fog, more stress, and then you actually start to doubt yourself because you're saying to yourself, I am, you could be running a company, could be working forever.

I actually can't even dress myself here. Okay. And the basics. So what you kind of have to do is, is step back. So the first thing I do, and I, and I say a lot of this in my talks is that you kind of have to go into that lifestyle wheel first, because if you think about COVID, certainly, you know, when I worked in professional service, I was going to work for four to five days out a week.

So to be honest, life was easy, Catherine, in terms of my tutorial choices. There's my corporate wardrobe. Um, I get up in the Monday morning, I wear that. Okay. I won't be wearing it the weekend, but actually that makes my life easy when I have to get three kids out in the morning. At the weekend, I wore my casual wear.

Now it's all changed. You've got a new dress codes. And you've got a new lifestyle. You might not be in the office two days a week. You might never be there. So first of all, don't panic. Because you might say to yourself, Oh my God, I need all these new clothes. No, first of all, What's the lifestyle? What do I really need them for?

Like you and I talk about what our plan is for the year in terms of clothes that we need. I look at now events. I know I'm back face to face. Oh, you know, this is what I need. So let's break it down when I go into the wardrobe. I need it for this. This is what I need for my day to day. You have to do that first step because then you're walking into a shop without a plan.

The second thing afterwards, I suppose, is before you create a wardrobe, because you have to have four or five looks in your wardrobe that you feel great in. That in the morning time, if the dishwasher's broken down, I don't know, the dog's got loose, you know that That outfit is going to work. You've got to put the time into creating those five looks.

And what I say to people, before you go out and start shopping for that, you've got to look inside. I know, Catherine, you have done your own massive detox. I have done my own massive detox over the last two or three weeks. And the one thing is that although I did shed clothes, I also found some old gems that I want to represent me now and where I'm going.

I'm trying to simplify my life by actually taking the stuff out that no longer serves me and keeping the stuff that does. And by actually doing that, and you have to put the work in, is that I said, Oh, you know what, there's my five looks. They'll do me for my talks. They'll do me for my this. So if I didn't have those, which at some moments, if I don't even have those.

At least you know your gaps beforehand so that when you go, you do lifestyle analysis first. Secondly, you've got to cleanse the wardrobe, get rid of pieces that don't serve you. And then you need to actually go shopping for the gaps that you, that you don't have. What I do with shopping is that I try and keep everything into a kind of a color family.

So we talked about that on too many colors in your wardrobe. I try and keep everything, let's say within grays or within whites, whatever it is. But I do stop and simplify the process. And then when I go into shop, I have. It's almost like a shopping list. You're not going to bake a cake, uh, unless you have the ingredients.

So I go in and I say, I know I need, you know what, I have three suits at home. They're great. I have no shoes to go with them. Or I have no top for underneath. Or actually, do you know what, now that I've got hot flushes, I think I need to get, um, tops with a bit more aeration at the arm hole, or I might need to get some darker tops for presentations.

Because I know I did one last year. I was wearing a coral silk top. I happened to be abroad in 40 degrees in Mallorca and, um, I had air con on, but didn't the lady in the other side say there's a noise coming from your side. So I kicked the air con, uh, broke it. And then I was talking about body language and how you need to energize a zoom call.

I looked down, it was two different colors and they're saying, why isn't she demonstrating? Cause you're supposed to have your hands flying in the air. And I went, Oh, good Jesus. So anyway, I ended up, um, getting actually a cotton patch put into that blouse. Um, because yeah, as in underneath the arm, you can actually get them on Amazon.

I couldn't afford to go through that again. Um, so that, that was where, but it's to simplify the process and a lot of women think they've got to run out and just start shopping and next month they come home with stuff that they don't need or that awful word, handy clothes. Because as I said, too much handy leaves no room for fabulous.

Yeah. This is a fabulous time in our lives. And don't get me wrong. I like a bread on top like anyone. Do I need five of them? Are they making me fabulous? No, unless I'm in France carrying a French stick and I'm on my way down to the market, I feel fabulous because I don't, I'm not working and I'll feel great.

But you know what I mean? It's just a handy option the whole way out because they go, Oh, I can't do this. I can't do this. But it takes effort to be effortless. And that doesn't mean looking as effortless as the Italians. That means putting a small bit of work in. to going into the shops. I mean, you and I have spoken about online shopping versus real life shopping and online is great to a point and we had to do it over lockdown.

I was with no choice, but you cannot be getting in there and trying on the clothes and that's where you will actually go. I wouldn't have paid for that online, but you know, now that I see it in the flesh. God, that's really fabulous. Yeah. But women make it hard on themselves and you can't make this, this dress, getting dressed any harder is in the morning because, um, I know it's like going away for you for a weekend when you've closed in that bag you love, you want to go away.

Yeah. So same with your wardrobe. Yeah, with your girls. Well, you want to go with your girls. If you've closed it, you love in your wardrobe, you want to show up and you've got to show up at this age in our lives because there's too many, and a lot of women, Catherine, don't show up because they don't have the clothes to wear.

Yeah. No, that sounds crazy. Yeah. No, no, it doesn't at all. And I think I like the weekend I was doing, um, decluttering my wardrobe. I don't know where, if you had an Instagram or a podcast, it might've been a podcast, but you said too much handy leaves no room for fabulous. And I was, I was decluttering and it Definitely spurred me on, but then I was looking for a pair of shoes and I did go, um, I did go shopping, but it was funny.

I just walked into one or two shops and I was, you know, the way you're browsing, you're looking at things, but in my head I was kind of like, fabulous. Where's fabulous? You're looking. I was looking for fabulous, but if you can even bring that with you when you go out, that makes the decision making, which we know can be difficult in menopause.

It's. That makes it easier because it needs to be something that you're just going to just like my red shoes that you're just going to look at and love. Like I know for a fact I slept with those shoes under my pillow or wherever for I don't know how long afterwards. Did you keep them? Sorry, that's what I was saying.

We did keep them for years, but, but then they're gone now. I don't know where they are, but it is that fabulous piece. It has to, you have to look, and that's the way I look at it now that really, if I'm going to buy something, it's not because it's handy. It's because I really love it. Absolutely love it.

And it will save you money, believe it or not. I know sometimes when we get older, we need to spend a little bit more. I mean, we've had lots of conversations about good jeans and all that type of stuff. But if you buy something fabulous, you will wear it because the handy stuff. It's handy. And we're not really showing our great, our greatness, if you know what I mean, inside.

And if it's fabulous, you actually just reach for it all the time. It's like when I'm dressing women and we're doing jeans shopping and they say to me, if I'm not spending that much money on jeans, and I say, okay, that's fine. Let's just run on these pair of jeans. The next minute they come out and they look at the bottom and they go, does it come in another color?

And it's just, but it's that piece of, I've never felt so fabulous. You know, because sometimes I'm not, by the way, it's not that you spend a lot of money to dress yourself. That's sometimes the opposite case, but sometimes getting the right amount of lycra and something, the right amount of support to lift the bottom up or whatever it is, um, it, it all helps in, in, in feeling fabulous.

And just talk us through there, the cost per wear, cause I know this is something you talk about a lot. And I think. Look, I, I, I, I see it a lot now, you know, the financial constraints everybody's experiencing because of, you know, just life and particularly, I think, you know, menopause can be an expensive time depending on what your management options are, so forth.

So it's, but I, but I do think I look differently and do you know what? I probably have done this because my dad in particular would have been very much for, you know, the value, the quality of. It's something that he would buy either for himself or for us, but, um, how do you translate that into the practical every day, the cost per wear?

Yeah. I mean the, I suppose I grew up with the buy once, buy well, um, mentality, but absolutely there's massive financial strain, um, because even the cost of menopause medication and all the other stuff that's so expensive at the moment. So for me, it does go back to, if I have four tops, I could buy four tops for, go to Dunn stores, buy a pint of milk, come home with a top for 30 quid.

Right? Because you know what? It was there and it's, and it's easy. And you could say to yourself, well, look, that's all I can afford this month. But what happens is that every time, if you're going to your weekly shop at Dunn stores and you're constantly buying a top, that all adds up, right? That really adds up.

And that top may not be fabulous and it may not stand the test of time. I go back to the pieces that I need to sometimes spend money on that I will get the cost per wear. So you can put that into two categories. I have a crazy leopard print jacket that I bought 18 years ago that is still going strong, a designer piece, or I could put it into a really good pair of black trousers that actually might just make the rest of my wardrobe open up.

And I know that if I even just buy that, or is it one, or is it one good top that I have loads of trousers at home and that'll actually get me through a lot, or is it a blazer, Catherine? It's back to those key capsule wardrobe pieces that actually might open up my wardrobe as opposed to just looking at something going like, I can't afford that.

But actually. Look at where it can fit in in your wardrobe and make it useful. If you think about years ago, how we lived in our twenties, we had a, you know, my time, I got one great black trousers, a skirt that just changed the tops all the time. Also clothes have gone ridiculous money. So. I do have an issue sometimes with going into a shop and seeing a polyester top that I might sweat in for 250 euro.

I mean, I don't care what the cost per wear is. That's just too much money for a polyester top. So now what, what I'm, I suppose I ask people to do is, you know, again, look inside your wardrobe, see what you have, but think of the sales. You know, I love my sales, um, this time of the year. Um, also. Don't dismiss pre loved, you know, I mean, both you and I have had fun with pre loved.

We've also had, I, hands up, I've had my disasters and then you say to yourself, Oh, no, it's fabulous really that crocodile jumpsuit with pink bows. Those shoes I just cannot squeeze into. still fabulous. I even brought them to, uh, what's his name? You know, the shoe, uh, the stretcher, the shoe stretcher, the Isaac.

That's right. I even brought him there. They're still not going to fit me. Oh, no, no. I look, I've done that. Yeah, I've done it. Um, but it's have to meet with. With preloved, certainly I know for me personally is that if I need a fabulous pair of shoes for an occasion and shoes have gone ridiculous money, um, the first place I look is preloved.

Cause if you know your brand and that size, if you are particular brand, you know, I'm always a six in that you, the risk is much lower than the nine. I mean, I know you had, you had your situation with those shoes, but I certainly know certain brands are standardized, but it is back to, you You know what?

And I always use the, you know, the Michael O'Leary analogy. If we've 10 kg to take away for a weekend and we've got 20 tops that we bought in the last kind of six months because we bought a pint of milk, we bought a top. You don't love any of them. And you can only take two tops in a 10 kg. Whereas if we'd actually stopped and bought maybe one or two pieces, we'd actually love to go away.

I always give a little tip at the start of the season. Sorry, how I, how I dress myself. Buy your most wanted and obvious piece first at the start of the season because I know it's not in a sale. It might be a good coat. It might be a good pair of black boots. It scuppers your budget a bit. Okay. But what happens is, is that you love that and you wear it.

And I had my own experience of buying a very good, years ago when shopping to Tesco's, saw a fabulous pair of black trousers. Now the Tesco shop was a bit small that month because the trousers were so lovely. Um, but you know what? It's covered the budget for the rest of the season, but I wore those trousers so much as opposed to just buying lots of little handy things along the way, along the way, throwing it into the traffic.

You know what actually ends up happening is that you've got to go somewhere on a Thursday night and you look in your wardrobe and you go, do you know what, I'm nothing. And you go out and you buy it again. Yeah. And it's just, you know, and I see it in, in, in people's wardrobes all the time. And it's look, we're all human.

It's very hard not to be tempted by those things, but actually it ends up and it's very bad for the environment, obviously, but it ends up costing us huge money in the long run. And I think the other thing too, if we start doing that every, every time, that's overwhelming as well. And the whole thing, what you're, I just think in menopause, we've got to, everything we need to just make, introduce CAM wherever we can.

And I think that starts with. It's kind of your clothes so that it's not, it doesn't, it's your clothes should be something that support you in a really nice uplifting way that it doesn't become another, Oh my God, I've got to shop for jeans. Oh, that's so overwhelming. And you know, you're nearly pass out at the thought of it.

Yes. And especially jeans shopping. Yeah. Yeah. Jeans shopping is hell. But set aside the time for it. I mean, that's the whole thing with, with the wardrobe. It's like everything in life. You have to. You have to set aside a time. If you keep ignoring it, you keep buying badly and that cause more stress. Can I just say you were talking earlier about the cotton patches that you can put on their shirts?

And this is something that I've recommended to quite a few women in the workplace who are having hot flushes. And I found them brilliant. You know, those uniglow, the little really skin, the thermals in winter. They can be fantastic just to wear underneath. I have six of them. You have, okay, I've just, I've just the one.

Cost per wear. But I must, I must actually get a link for those and I'll put them in because I just find you kind of even just, The comfort of knowing that that's there. Did you have the ballet ones? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that even if I'm wearing, um, a blouse or a shirt or whatever, you don't actually see it.

Um, but you know, and even like sometimes, you know, obviously in winter when it's colder, it's perfect. And it's absorbs actually sweat, those tops and they dry quite quickly. Yeah, no, I, I have, I know sick sounds a bit extreme, but. To be honest, even if you want to wear a nice wool or cashmere jumper, it'll save them as well from having to wash them all the time.

Oh, okay. Okay. That's another. Yeah. Yeah. And is the ballet top the only one Aoife or is there other ones there that are good because I know they're very good price as well. I tell you what I love there. Um, they do a thing called a bra top actually. I have that. Yeah, and what I love about that just from a comfort point of view is that they're wireless, but they still give you great support and shape and I have a number of those.

That's what I probably wear actually on a regular basis. But I know Marks Spencers do um, um, The, the equivalent and I know Falk, um, also do a cold climate top, it's called, um, which I can give you a link to as well after that. But it's, it's again, anything that can absorb that sweat because what happens is, you know, it's wet.

I didn't realize this myself, is that if you get, you might think you don't, you don't sweat and then you add menopause and anxiety, like I, I don't know about you, Catherine, but sometimes the presentation, there's that wonderful anxiety beforehand, that's actually great to get you, anticipation, and the next minute you go, Oh, where did that come from?

Um, so I, I just feel, and that's the whole thing is that women need to go into a meeting or whatever it is, knowing that their clothes are not going to take away the excitement Their concentration, what they're trying to say. So it's like, when I present the reason why I like a jacket is that I just know I'm, I'm, I'm in the all clear.

Um, you know, I'm going to be safe in terms of sweating and all that so that I can get on with what I want to say. Yeah. Yeah. You don't have to, you don't have to worry about it, it's just not on the agenda. No, no. And I think just because I'm conscious too, that sometimes you can have, um, you know, a lot of women, if you're on, say in pharmaceutical and you have, um, a uniform or if you're on a manufacturing line, that's where those Uni Glo tops, I think can be really beneficial because depending on, obviously I'd encourage employers to look at the, the, the ingredients in the product.

The uniforms, because if they're synthetic, they're going to make hot flushes worse. Um, but certainly if you can put layers yourself underneath, it can also really help. I'll tell you what's great as well. I know sometimes if you really suffer from hot flushes, sometimes people, um, I know one lady, she got her, the arm holes made bigger in her, in her, um, dresses.

But if let's say you decide to wear a scoop neck top, just because you, you really are trying to get air into the body. I always encourage my clients to have a silk scarf. In their bag, because let's just say you're in the middle of a meeting and you feel a hot flush coming on. You've decided to wear something low that day, not ridiculously low, but low to let in, um, not to feel so hot.

Uh, the silk scarf over you will actually cover the hot flushes without it making you sweaty. Cause silk is a natural fiber and it's not stuck to your body. It's just gently over. Cause you, you might think to yourself, God, where are those hot flushes? Are they going to go up my neck? Are they going to go left or right?

So that scarf Just again, it's all about as a woman, especially if you're in a room full of men or whatever it is, it's all about, Oh my God. Okay. I'm okay now. I know the scarf is covered, but it's just, I always say, keep it in your handbag. Yeah. If you feel a moment coming on. Yeah. And sometimes you can spread it out if you feel that there's.

Well, because unfortunately, you know, generally when you get a hot flush, you get cold afterwards. So you need a scarf or something light to put Back on again, you know, um, I mean, I look at it, I think in a lot of workplaces it is great, you know, many women are just kind of just saying, sorry, you know, I'm just having a hot flush and just moving through it.

But that's, you know, that's not the case for everybody. So I think it's, it is all about kind of, you know, what is. You, how you feel comfortable, you know, exactly. Some women are very happy to say that. And others, when you don't want to let anyone know that this is the stage that they're going through. So that just depends on your, your personality, your comfort levels, obviously with this.

But I just think that sneaky scarf, um, and we all have one. Yeah. You know, just dig it out. Yeah. Um, any final practical tips or advice you'd like to give? Um, the biggest thing, and I know I've touched on it is, That as we get older, whether it's menopause or not, our style can actually get better if we're willing to go there, right?

If we decide to stay the same all the time and dress the way we did, 10, 20, 30 years ago, nothing changes. And also, like, I mean, even in my time, going back to professional services, my mind changed, changed by the way I dressed and presented myself. So what I would say is don't stay the same because we're not the same, Catherine.

We're very different as we get older. And it's a wonderful stage to be at. And I would start with that piece around. Uh, it is, it is a bit of work to dig deep, um, into your wardrobe and to put the time into the lifestyle analysis and to actually take out the clothes. Does it fit me? As you know, are they erect?

All those things that we did, but I can't tell you when you get to the other side. I don't know how you felt after your detox. I felt a massive weight. And what happens is that I now open my wardrobe and they're all my friends. And friends are people that encourage us, that lift us up. And I know there are pieces in there that will take me into a different place.

And I put the work, obviously, I know it's the business. You could say it's easy for me. It's the business I'm in. I go through the very same imposter syndrome that everybody else goes in. I go, we all go through the same stuff and anxiety and all that. Look at your clothes. as that support mechanism. Word is always king.

Who you are as a person is always going to be. That's the most important thing. But if I need to project an image, I need to feel it first. It's so important. So every day you've got to get dressed, make it count. And I always, I always finish with everyone in a room has the right and power to feel fabulous.

Menopause you know, I was going to use the word attacks, that's the wrong word. Menopause comes at us, at us in so many different ways. It could be weight gain, rainfall, could be all, everything. But please don't look at this. Oh gosh, I'm not that person I used to be. You're a new fabulous person. And the one thing I see all the time is everybody, two things people do, trying to dress And fit into the clothes they did 20 years ago or 10 years ago and trying to dress like other people because if, you know, I know, for example, I am long bodied short legged.

There's no point in me going out and buying low rise trousers because they may suit others. They're not going to do anything for me. So I now stand back the one thing after my training London. Is that I know what works for me and I know what doesn't and I've now let go of what doesn't because You're not trying to get it to work.

I'm not trying. I've been in dressing rooms with lots of women and trust me what I put on one woman is fabulous and doesn't suit another and it's not because she's a size six or a size 16 or whatever it is. It's not because of that. She is unique. She is different and if we can just Celebrate our differences and actually dress for our color, our body shape, our style, personality, our goals, our, our, our life.

And I don't mean to forget about everybody else, but I can't tell you what, how good that feels. Liberating. It's liberating. It's liberating. And it's like, You know, back wearing the red shoes again or whatever it is. Um, but it's, it's a real case of that looks wonderful on you, but this is better for me.

Yeah. It's a customized approach and I certainly know I'm a fabulous piece myself. With what works for me and what will support me and what won't. And especially, you know, I started StyleBob later in life. So it's very important that I have clothes that support me doing this at this stage of my life.

Brilliant. And I think that all ties in very nicely Aoife, in relation to that. The fact that menopause is a liberation. It is a chapter that we go through and yes, it can have its upheavals, but at the end of the day, you do come through that change, that transformation. And it is that, you know, I always, you know, I love the Japanese way of looking at it is that it's the renewal.

Opportunities that come with menopause and I think that's we're just embracing it on all levels and and that is part of our clothes Whatever that is for you, you know, it'll be different for every single person listening to this Yeah, and but even thanks a million and I'll put all your details in the show notes so people can contact with you But thanks for listening Very much for coming on the podcast and thank you Catherine for having me.